Before I head out for the night to get my fix of Star Trek TNG, I thought I’d toss up some links and info about tomorrow’s 1.0.3 patch for WAR. It looks like it will be adding a ton of really great features (woot! A regional chat channel!) and fixing several issues. They’re also introducing a bit of a balance change to healers in RvR… no, not making some of us less squishy unfortunately – It’s a change to how much renown we can earn. Apparently it was too high.. *shrug* Honestly, Graev and I are the same Realm Rank so I can’t really say that this was an issue. (We’re both like RR 27 or something like that).
Impressive patching so far from Mythic. They’ve been instituting daily hotfixes as well to address the more prominent issues.
More thoughts on the patch tomorrow if anything interesting turns up.
The patches are nice and the fixes pretty steady.
I’d like to see the bigger issues addressed though. Namely the population imbalance, the grind on the first part of most PQs that’s leaving them abandoned, the Player-versus-NPC game that RvR has become and well, everything else that adds up to this being Warhammer: Age of Scenarios.
Not that I mind the Scenarios, I do like them, but it’s all that seems to be going on at this point. Soooo many players going back to WoW right now and WotLK hasn’t even arrived yet. =/
@Rog – Going back to WoW? That’s odd. Everyday more of my friends quit WoW to come to WAR. I mean… WoW is ONLY battlegrounds and arena. Even in WotLK beta barely anyone does the open world PvP. I actually have a bunch of friends quiting WoW because of WotLK. They, like me, played since launch and don’t want to relevel everything AGAIN! WotLK basically means anything pre-WotLK means nothing…BTW, the new arena’s make me lawl. One of them is like a 30 foot radius. It is a giant spamfest. Even with WAR as it is now, it is way better for PvP. The only reason I could see going back to WoW would be… um… down syndrome? I would just quit games for now if I quit WAR. No reason to goto a horrible expansion or a never ending grind of a game JUST to play a game…
Once more people starting hitting 40, I think it will end up much more World RvR. You seem to get much more renown that way. And since that is what you need once your 40… Most people are just spamming scenarios because it is the easiest way to level. I mean, I have 2 toons in T3 and each time I see a siege I think, man I bet thats an insane battle. However, do I want to walk 3-5 mins to it, and then battle for an hour or two and level 1-2 bubbles when I could level an entire level in that time in scenarios? So I never go. To me, leveling is more important. I know that is how it is for most people as well.
@Photonic: Hey I’m not interested in returning to WoW myself, you don’t have to sell me.
I’d like WAR to be better than it is, really I don’t have much else to bet on since I have little interest in Blizzard’s games at this point and I’m thoroughly tired of Star Wars. So WAR it is.
I’m hoping for more world RvR, but it isn’t just a matter of getting more players into it, it’s just not as fun as it should be. When there are lots of players, it’s just a zerg. It’s not even a zerg against other players, it’s a zerg against NPCs. The coolness factor of looking up at Keep walls fades fast.
I’m enjoying the game and I’d like to see Mythic improve it. The way I see it the cheerleaders are doing WAR an injustice if they let Mythic think RvR is A-Okay. The playerbase is just lazy or something, leveling is faster in Scenarios, blah blah. Sorry, but that’s a load of garbage. If it was fun to more people, more people would be doing it.
Same goes for PQs.
If they go around adjusting experience downward for Scenarios, all it’s going to do is annoy players as a grind. At least with Scenarios, the most fun to be had is also pretty good exp. I don’t see many people calling it a Scenario grind, but you better believe they’ll call it an RvR grind if Mythic tries to push it via exp.
This reminds me of all the warnings of population imbalance, where everyone was “just wait and see with release, Order might actually get more players than Destruction”. That issue is still big and glaring right now too btw.
Mythic needs to get on top of the big problems.
I expect WAR will continue to get more new players than what they lose for now, but it’ll reach a threshold sooner or later if they don’t address the obvious big flaws. Waiting until the majority of the playerbase is at Endgame would be a massive mistake. If RvR is still a bore it will be too late to fix, players will not stand around waiting at that point.
Again, I like the game. I love parts of it. I’d like to see it a lot better than it is.
i just wish they would fix all the problems i have with Trophys ;\
They can’t fix the population issue with one patch, but I think that’s obvious. It’s going to take time to even out on some of the servers with bigger issues. On my server, Wolfenburg, our populations are great (high/high or full/full every night).
I love the scenarios way more than I thought I would. I’ve always been somewhat standoffish with the BG’s and Scenarios in other games but in WAR I absolutely love them. What I DON’T love is the lack of diversity right now. People are only playing Nordenwatch, Mourkain, Tor Anroc, and Serpents Passage (T1-T4). Why? There are dozens of others throughout the tiers that could be played and sadly all of them are better than the selection people keep picking.
Open-world RvR will pick up in the higher levels naturally because that’s what the “end-game” is all about. However, if Mythic wants people to leave scenarios then they need to wise’n up and make open-world more rewarding; A LOT more rewarding.
PQ’s are PQ’s… public (meaning general population – meaning more than one person) and they require lots of people. Trying to do them with just a couple people will feel tedious. Killing 150 skeletons is a lot with 2-3 people… but 150 skeletons with 10 people suddenly peoples only 15 skeletons per person.
@ rog, you make vaild statements, and i agree with many of them. photonic briefly mentioned it, and its key to understanding WAR. people are just now hitting 40. the mass of the server is floating between rank 15-35 at the moment, as i figure it at least, and the majority sitting closer to the 20’s. servers have yet to mature. the game is a month old. populations will balance out, and mythic will do what it takes to make that happen. they have a near flawless track record (concerning WAR) so far.
as far as RVR being a bore….well…..you must not be doing it right i guess. granted, the lakes in lower tiers are often empty. thats boring yes. but thats not rvr, thats empty rvr lakes. the rvr, when it happens, is a blast. having a pessimistic outlook on rvr is counter-logical. as everyone progresses to T4 rvr will increase, its designed to do so. when everyone hits 40 they are all in the same zone then, with their purpose united. right now the community is fragmented across zones, tiers, and levels. hitting rank 40 removes all that fragmentation. the rvr we see now is only a shadow of what it will be, and soon.
personally, im extremely excited about the game. the near daily fixes coming in are awesome. no, they arent the changes to the things i want always (rarely are they in fact), but someone somewhere needed those fixes. this is simply a matter of waiting in line. when you wait in line at mcdonalds and you see the 5 people in front of you get their burgers and leave happily, you dont tend to doubt that you will get your burger do you?
mythic is doing an absolutely killer job if you ask me. they are addressing issues brought up by the community and doing so quickly (except for balance changes, which is understandable, those things need time).
again, i agree that the game has its issues. but mythic has shown that they respond well to the communitys desires, and im extremely hopeful.
I THINK the healer renown changes are mostly targeted against players who remove themselves from groups and solo in scenarios. Certainly my healer has never earned more renown than everyone else in a scenario, no matter how much I heal. I could be wrong, but at least I hope that’s what they mean.
i believe youre right graktar. im confused though, because the real issue was sorcs/bw or some other high dps class leaving group and rolling balls for insane xp. healers could do it sure, but sorcs are doing it nonstop. i cant recall ever seeing a healer do it. maybe its just not a problem on wolfenburg.
Apparently healers who left groups could get amazing renown. There’s already a lvl 40 RR 60 Runepriest or something. That’s definitely broken. I agree, I don’t think it was an issue on Wolfenburg either.
Well this is turning out to be a whole lot more than my $0.02 but please forgive me for having more than a few words on the subject. =)
@dyabeetus: What happened to the whole theme that WAR was a game of RvR playable from Rank 1? Now the hedging is “get to Endgame, it’ll be good there”. That’s a downturn from launch for sure.
@Keen: What was great about PQs was just jumping in and having fun with them. Now I have to bring 10+ people? Those people should be there to begin with, I shouldn’t need to drag them along.
Mythic balanced PQs with the assumption that they’d naturally be crowded. Either they thought players would roam around in large groups, or join large guilds. But typically in most MMOs that doesn’t happen much. 1-3 player groups are the norm, especially for a game that’s so casually accessible.
Although I’d argue that killing 150 mobs zerg-style just isn’t much fun either. Just like RvR, if PQs were more fun, they’d be more populated.
Larger guilds and roaming groups are more prevalent in hardcore games, ala EVE Online. WAR is heavy on convenience, it’s not IMHO remotely hardcore, even if players playing in that style are probably experiencing more PQ and RvR goodness.
I guess most of all, I’m not as encouraged by Mythic’s efforts as much because of this core point: If they don’t think they’re actually problems with the game and instead insist that they’re problems with the players… they’ll never get them fixed right that way.
PQs and RvR need to be rebalanced around the players, not the other way around.
@rog: you are right in saying that having to get to endgame to enjoy a game is lame. i definitely agree with that.
your issue is tied up with rvr and pqs. there is only so much mythic can do about either of these. both of these things suffer due to population in that part of the game. thats a hard thing to shift around (as we see with the realm disparity at the moment).
your final point is “PQs and RvR need to be rebalanced around the players, not the other way around.” i absolutely agree. hasnt mythic already done this? or have you forgotten? they adjusted the loot scale on pqs due to the numbers. they can just as easily readjust, either the loot or the requirements of stages or difficulty of mobs. theyve done it once to make the game better, why wouldnt they do it again? in my mind, mythic has already set the example here that yes, they fit the game around players. thats not something that can happen instantly though. pqs that are dead on your server may be busy nonstop on another server. they have to deal with all servers in all time zones. that needs to be recognized. they scaled pqs up for a larger number of players, it makes sense they will scale them back down when the time is right.
rvr is a hard thing to fix i think. mythic has already shown interest in making it right though, by buffing the xp rewards from it. the change apparently comes from player feedback. if the feedback continues to push it towards more xp buffs, its likely they will buff it more no? they have a track record here of following feedback and responding to it. im sure they will do more than just xp buffs to improve rvr as well.
finally, you said “I guess most of all, I’m not as encouraged by Mythic’s efforts as much because of this core point: If they don’t think they’re actually problems with the game and instead insist that they’re problems with the players… they’ll never get them fixed right that way.” is this a quote from somewhere? if so, could you link it please? im confused by this statement because from what i can see, a ton of changes that mythic is making is coming from player feedback. that looks like mythic changing the game around players, not asking players to deal with the game. mythics actions stand in direct opposition to the idea you are proposing here, and as we all know, actions speak louder than words.
@dyabeetus: I mean actually rebalancing the PQs, not the incentives. The incentives are pushing players, that’s exactly what I criticized as rebalancing the players instead of the PQs themselves.
If Mythic’s reaction to problems with PQs and RvR is to change a bit of loot here and a bit of exp / renown over there, then I’m going to be in perpetual /facepalm.
That’s my take so far given Mark Jacobs’ posts on these topics this week. I’m not going to over-analyze every word or quote the walls of text, but it seems to me he’s been saying imbalance and lack of defenders is more of a player choice and the most they can do is a bit of encouragement. I think they can do a lot more, they just need to bite the bullet and realize they have to.
Yeah, I think it would be hard to fix. That’s exactly why they should start now.
I also agree that player feedback is what they have to go on, which is why I’m harsh on the cheerleading.
The core of the game ~is~ good. Mark Jacobs isn’t wrong there. Their basic design isn’t flawed, but IMHO it needs adjustments at the core, not the fringe.
Actions do speak louder. I’m not seeing gameplay changes, I see reward adjustments. The easy stuff.
Not really related to the topics but after playing WAR for sometime now I find it just boring. This is coming from someone who was modding boards and pre-ordered the CE when it was announced. I can not put my finger on it but I really do think it comes down to just the atmosphere, if you are not in a guild the game gets boring fast. Chat is barren and not connected at all and there are rarely any parties doing things together besides PQs that I see.
This might come from me playing Order but getting stopped more then half the time in scenarios is not really fun nor is having people take keeps and the rest of your realm not caring. I feel there is no scene of community in the game, I know this can differ from server to server but it gets hard to level fast the longer you wait and server hop.
I am going back to play WoW even though I hate it with a passion. Most of my freinds are there and so I will join them. The community part of an MMO is what draws me in, its hardly the content. If I can sit in vent and chat for hours then I will and not get a single thing done.
Guilds in WAR is the only community I see right now, it may kick in later but as of now its just now there.
@Engrey
I have to agree with you. The best part of an MMO is establishing relationships with the other players. I seriously doubt that I would enjoy WAR, as much as I do, if it were not for the great players that I have met in game. But this sentiment holds true for any MMO. You said it yourself, you can chat with friends in WoW and do nothing in game.
MMOs will not find friends for you. Players should make an effort to group with others, but most of us are guarded because we have met many jerks in these games.
An MMO will only be a single player game if you allow it to be. Make an effort to meet people in game. Be polite and considerate. There are many players in WAR that you will have a lot in common with. Seek them out. Community does strengthen the basis of any MMO, But don’t expect it to fall in your lap.
Have you given the Happy Fun Guys a try? I recommend it. Great community of players imo.
@rog
ive not read the stuff that mark jacobs is saying unless it gets posted on WHA. i personally have never had the feeling from mythic that they expect players to mold themselves around the game. ive seen the opposite instead.
i understand what you mean about pqs, i see the dead pqs on my server. id love for those to be rebalanced. you are too impatient though. you talk about how things need to be fixed, but im confused. have you ever seen a developer patch a game so much in such a short amount of time? its a first for me at least. i get a new patch every two days it seems, sometimes more. mythic is obviously committed to making the game good. theres a lot to be said for rushing “knee-jerk” reactions though. im willing to be that mythic has started balancing these things out, but the process of balancing isnt just tossing a patch on the servers and seeing how it flies. theres lots of planning. have you played oceanic or european servers? how are the aspects of the game on those servers that you believe need to be “fixed”? i dont know, but mythic does. yeah, they changed pq loot, and loot doesnt fix dead pqs. it fixed the problem they were having though. the thing to notice here is not “how” they fixed pqs, but the fact that they cared to fix the pqs.
maybe you are misunderstanding my general feeling. i like WAR, and i think its a good game with lots of broken things right now. in no way do i condone the broken things. i give “constructive feedback” almost twice a night, at least once. thats technically negative feedback they are getting. in fact, i have only once sent in positive feedback. i dont know about other boards, but WHA tends to be a whine fest (in no way a surprise). i dont know where all the cheerleading is. i know i have a positive attitude about WAR **only because** mythic is patching like a beast. every patch with positive, forward moving changes in it reinforces the idea that mythic is committed to making a good game.
in the end rog, you and i agree. i see the same problems and recognize them as unacceptable, just like you do. where we differ is that i dont form my ideas as though i am the sole player of the game or my server is the only server mythic is running. secondarily, im willing to wait for things to be fixed as i dont expect mythic to be able to fix everything in one go. mythic is taking the wise course in fixing things here, by moving slowly.
@dbyabeetus: You’re trying too hard to look for some sort of personal bad motivation on my part for being critical.
A sense of urgency is not the same as impatience, and opinions on the state of the game’s population is hardly a sole concern.
Try the VN boards instead of WHA. I’ll link in the next post but it’ll probably sit in Keen & Graev’s spam-filter limbo for a bit (totally understandable).