I don’t quite understand this one. Why is Valve releasing a brand new game to replace a game that just came out last year? Why would you limit the shelf life of a best seller when people would have continued to purchased L4D and continue to play it probably for years, unless you just want to be a money-grabber? What would have made more sense and been a better PR move is an expansion pack or a huge content update to the original game to expand upon it, thus making it actually worth while.
If L4D2 is bigger, better, and overall an improvement from the original then people will feel inclined to put L4D down. Promises of continuing to support an old product just don’t cut it when you have a new shiny toy that will likely outsell and outplay the first. People are calling it a “re-imagining” of the game. Okay, sure, it’s re-imagined and spiffy but I can’t help but shake the feeling that L4D 2 should be subtitled “The game we meant to make” and L4D is just…well.. left 2 die. It’s a bitch move by Valve that stinks of Apple’s iPhone strategy. L4D2 is L4D with the lights on designed with an action twist instead of a horror feel. It is essentially taking what probably worked really well with the original and making a significantly better game; Can’t fault them for that, but it would have been nice to know that the original was just a test run.
Good points. Now this is blogging! Passionate and pointed, exactly what was missing from your Massively like LotD impressions post.
I hadn’t expected a sequel so soon, but unlike you I’m more than ready for it. Left 4 Dead is a marvelous game, but even with its superb multiplayer and clever AI tricks its replayability does have limits.
From my perspective, Left 4 Dead 2 can’t come soon enough. Bring it on, Valve!
i’m betting big fat chickens like me being left out of the potential market in the lights off version played a pretty large role in their decision ^^
This goes with Valve’s episodic development and their attempts to reduce their development cycles. Left 4 Dead is like an episode two.
“It’s a bitch move by Valve that stinks of Apple’s iPhone strategy.”
Are you using “stinks of” in the “almost entirely unlike” sense again?
Why would you limit the shelf life of a best seller when people would have continued to purchased L4D and continue to play it probably for years, unless you just want to be a money-grabber?
You think that deliberately not milking a product for all the cash it’s worth is money grabbing?
What would have made more sense and been a better PR move is an expansion pack or a huge content update to the original game to expand upon it, thus making it actually worth while.
It seems like requiring customers to buy two games to enjoy the one they want is less fair than offering them seperately.
Okay, sure, it’s re-imagined and spiffy but I can’t help but shake the feeling that L4D 2 should be subtitled “The game we meant to make†and L4D is just…well.. left 2 die.
Why do you think they’re abandoning it? All I’ve heard them say, every damn day since they announced L4D2, is that they’re “not done with L4D”. Anyway, what if HL2 had come out a year after HL1? I would have been all over it. So it took them a quarter of the time it took other companies to make a sequel. Does that mean it’s worth less money?
Admittedly I’ve not looked into it properly, but Ive heard L4D2 referred to in the same way as City Of Villains. Expanshalone.
Buy both games, buy one, whatever. They’ll play differently and together could be a more complete whole than alone.
“You think that deliberately not milking a product for all the cash it’s worth is money grabbing?”
It IS money grabbing because the current L4D players wouldn’t be shelling out $50 for DLC. This move segments the game community and pressures these players into spending that extra chunk of cash to get the “new and improved” version of what may be their favorite game. These players expected the support the company promised and aren’t getting it.
“Why do you think they’re abandoning it? All I’ve heard them say, every damn day since they announced L4D2, is that they’re “not done with L4D”
Simple, why would they invest significant time and resources into a title that’s already been replaced? It would make more sense to invest that into the newer, more advanced title. Most people, when given a choice at the game shelf, will choose the newer game because, well, it’s newer. Valve making those statements is fine but I believe the players expected the effort they’ll put towards L4D2 to go into the original L4D.
Oh, by the way Keen, I love the “bitch move” comment. Made me lol.
Whoa, where’s all of the negativity coming from? 🙂 Releasing sequels is what games companies do. They loooove that thing called cash 🙂
And it’s not like L4D is going to be giving them continual sales forever. It’s a lot more in their interest to redevelop it and recapitalise on it.
Personally I’m looking forward to it.
What I don`t get is new orleans!!
The l4d campaigns were all dark and scary but now you are in a hot sunny place. It looks as if they are trying to remove the 28 days after feel it had and replace it with a resident evil extinction feel. You know instead of running away you go pew pew :).
Finally I agree 100% about the bitch move. They should have made an extra campaing for l4d before making another game.
Loved the first and excited for the sequel. Making it this soon is a good thing in my book.
Wow. Like that? Do a TINY bit of reading before you go and start slamming people, please. That way you’re better informed and can speak from a place of knowledge.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/06/04/valve-on-l4d2-trust-us-a-little-bit/
More from Valve:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/before-its-time-valve-explains-left-4-dead-sequel-to-ars.ars
I agree, I don’t see what the big deal is over this. It’s the first time Valve has ever had a sequel (or much of anything for that matter) ready so soon. They take too long, we bitch. They do it too soon, we bitch. But ya know what? All the bitchers will be buying L4D2 on release day anyway.
L4D is an awesome game but just doesn’t have much replay value in the long run other than for the type of people who obsess over things. I doubt L4D2 will either, but maybe it will have more tricks under the hood to allow expansion of the title — which is what people are expecting after HL2 chapters, and more to the point all the free reinventions of TF2 — than L4D did.
Having read some interviews with the Valve team, I’m confident that they are releasing Left 4 Dead 2 because they see it as a necessary step towards creating a platform that they can maintain and add to for years to come. So often developers are forced to make last minute compromises of their vision in the interest of meeting a deadline. Why begrudge them the chance to expand upon the previous effort’s shortcomings earlier than later? They could have milked the original for a year or more then sold a sequel. I think they’ve earned gamers’ trust.
There are a lot of misinformed opinions regarding L4D2. While I’m not very happy about it either for several reasons many of the things I hear are ridiculous. We’ve seen part of 1 campaign. It was daylight. Not every campaign is going to be daylight. The game is also months away from release. With all the basics being provided from L4D that leaves them plenty of time to polish the game and make it just how they want it. Don’t like the music? That will probably be changed. Even if it’s not modders will post how to change it within a day of release.
Now, I too am angry that Valve isn’t keeping their word by updating L4D1. L4D2 isn’t anything modders couldn’t make with a year too…and it would be free. Valve charging full price for this game is what bothers me most. Even if the game is good (which I have no doubts that it will be) it’s still essentially a large mod. The only major difference is the updated AI director which in competitive play will cause even MORE frustration due to its randomness. We’ll see how things play out. Valve may have a few tricks up their sleeve that we don’t know about yet so I”m not abandoning the game, but I am disappointed.
Left 4 Dead in general would of done better if it were episodic. That way valve can keep creating new maps, art and assets without making the customer feel cheated.
In L4D2, they should make it “backwards” compatible with L4D(1) so that people who may have never played the original get to experience the entire package. This would also add more meat to the bone, I’m sadden that it’s only 5 new Campaigns, Valve can pump out Source Maps like there’s no tomorrow, why stop at 5.
Releasing sequels isn’t a bad thing. Never faulted Valve for that.
Making new games isn’t a bad thing. Never faulted them for that.
Running a business isn’t a bad thing. Never faulted them for that.
What I AM faulting them over is the fact that L4D was sold on promises of being updated and expanded upon. Releasing a product that is essentially a HUGE upgrade from L4D, charging FULL PRICE for it, and will actually replace any desire to play the original L4D is crap. I stopped playing L4D because I did everything there was to do in the game and I was waiting on content updates. While waiting months and months and months for ANYTHING all we got was an announcement of a bigger and better full cost sequel announced less than a year after the original.
I agree Keen, L4D2 should of just been an “expansion” pack for L4D.
I feel back for Xbox players that had to pay $59.99 for L4D. At least PC users were able to pick it up when it goes on sale on Steam.
I’m a little surprised at the sense of entitlement a lot of gamers have regarding Left 4 Dead. You bought the game and Valve has issued updates and bugfixes, adding an entire new mode and map to play on in the months thereafter. Did they cheat you out of what you paid for? Why is there expectation of more, free content or even paid DLC? What they’ve done in the past with other IPs (ie Team Fortress) has no bearing on how they handle the Left 4 Dead property. Likewise with Burnout Paradise, and the backlash Criterion faced when they dared charged for DLC after updating the game for free for over a year. You paid for the game, it was updated and expanded upon for free, and now they are releasing a huge upgrade to that experience as a standalone product. If it isn’t a good value proposition to you, then continue to play Left 4 Dead or abstain all together.
I can’t say I was wowed enough by L4D to buy a L4D2. A content expansion for a nominal fee like $5-10 would have been amazing, but I’m not going to bother with a brand new title in this series.
It did what it did very well, but there simply wasn’t enough of it to sustain my interest.
Sean, our expectations come from promises made specifically about L4D. There were no assumptions here or any unjustified sense of entitlement. And that’s the whole point of the post: I’ll be skipping L4D2 because L4D3 is likely 8 months away.
Maybe this is why I’m so enjoying my decision that sometimes ignorance is bliss. I don’t get worked up over hype (see my disinterest in SW:TOR for example) anymore. I no longer worry about pre-launch interviews where the devs make claims that later players turn around and use the word “promises” (like Keen just did) when the devs never actually “promised” a damn thing.
These days I just check out a game and if it’s fun, great. If it gets a sequel that’s better, great. If not, whatever, there’s tons more games to choose from.
There is a difference between promising something like player housing or a feature that doesn’t make it into a game during development and promising that a game will receive ongoing development post-launch. Are you asking for us to add promises of ongoing development to the long list of things we just let developers lie to us about?
My point was that you weren’t lied to or misled. There has been ongoing development for Left 4 Dead and I’d wager you have tried out the new survival mode since its release. If you could point to an excerpt in the product description to the effect of “We promise to provide free content and updates for the game indefinitely” then I could understand feeling swindled. Again, I’m willing to cut Valve a little slack here instead of jumping down their throats three days after the sequel’s unveiling.
No, I’m just asking the gamersphere at large to stop using the word “promise” when it doesn’t apply. Claims and statements are one thing. Promises are another. Devs rarely, if ever, make promises.
What are they charging for it?
Sean, when did they add new a map? They added a new game mode, plus “unlocking” the versus mode on 2 of the campaigns it didn’t run on.
They didn’t really add any new content, even the Survivor mode is half-baked.
Full price of a game, Jazmeister.
Pseven, did they not add the Lighthouse with Survivor mode?
I stand corrected, but I didn’t really consider it a map – since it wasn’t playable in any mode other than survival
according to an interview( on ign i think) valve employees choose their next project, and the l4d devs felt they had too many good ideas left out of the first game thatthey had to do another. So really valve’s pr dept had no say( supposedly) nor anyone else except the devs making the game.
maybe more companies should let their employees decide what they work on, as valve seems to make pretty damn good games.
Hang on, how are we not getting what we were promised with Left 4 Dead? It’s been updated and they’ve just released the SDK / Authoring Tools, which is exactly the kind of extended support we (speaking for myself at least, hah) expect from Valve.
I don’t see how a timely sequel supersedes that.
I suppose the argument could be given that the new game could deflate community interest in modding & mapping for the old game, but so far at least I’ve seen more than a few “x is playing Left 4 Dead Authoring Tools” on my Steam list.
This is exactly the kind of ongoing support that’s so cool about Valve. Yeah, sometimes you practically get free-ish expansion-like material– ala Team Fortress 2, but geez that was also a helluva long wait in delivery too.
The new game replaces the old one though. L4D2 will be L4D but better. It’s like the Xbox360 and the Xbox. People still made Xbox games for a while but the reality is that the Xbox360 was a replacement for the Xbox.
after reading about L4D2 and looking at the videos/SS, i can honestly say im not impressed.
it looks like a mod for the original. and the playable characters are just a downer.
L4D had a awesome group of survivors.
@Keen: I don’t know if it will replace it tho. I see the argument, but by the time L4D2 gets released we may be seeing a decent amount of community made content. It’d be awhile before 2 sees an SDK, so both games should have unique reasons to play them for quite awhile.
*shrug* It seems to me a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. My usual complaint is that sequels and expansions take too long getting made. It seems a really odd complaint that it’s too soon. Feels like people just plain like to complain.