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Warrior Priests

Why?  Why can a Warrior Priest top the damage charts in T2 AND have over 20k healing?  They obliterate everyone but tanks (that take a little longer to kill) to such a degree that I can’t stop healing myself when a WP gets on me or I will literally die in 2 seconds.  Graev was 3 shot by a WP 20 min ago in Stonetroll Crossing.   I simply do not understand why they were allowed to reach launch in this state.  Testers have been saying for ages that this class is all kinds of BS.  This isn’t a case of “all classes aren’t balanced for 1v1” – trust me, I’ve played that card.

Complete fail.  Fix it.

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Autheron - September 16, 2008

Bah! It’s not the Empire’s fault their deity is awezumsauze.

Sigmar > You

Regis - September 16, 2008

It’s fine, l2p nub.

Naah, I know what you mean 😉 WP and Disciple are nasty business – melee healers done *right*.

Pseven - September 16, 2008

DoK’s are equally broken…

I just wanted to point that out.

He was tanking 3 of us, 1 Witch Hunter, 1 Engineer and 1 Rune Priest…

transitive - September 16, 2008

seriously Keen? class balance complaining? i’ve enjoyed your blog for so long because its alot more interesting, thoughtful, and has a much more moderate tone than the typical rubbish on forum sites like WHA or VNboards. this kind of thing on the other hand is exactly what I typically find on forums. disappointed.

coppertopper - September 16, 2008

Is Graeve going to post next about facing disciples of khaine from the order perspective?? This is part of a joke thread whose punch line hasn’t hit the site yet right?

Danath - September 16, 2008

I told you, they are just like Friar’s out of DAoC, as a WP myself I find myself HARD to kill if im only being hit by one or two people, but under focus fire I fold like a stack of cards.

Im not saying they ARENT OP, but they arent indestructable either, could definatly use some rebalancing.

Hudson - September 16, 2008

Oh please, you all have DoK, we have WP’s, stop crying

Grimjakk - September 16, 2008

I’ve been saying for awhile now that playing a WP/DoK felt like playing a shield tanking ship in EVE. If I can keep up with the DPS your dishing out, I can last all day.

But if you “break my tank” I go down in seconds. Burst DPS (witch elves and sorceress’ especially) HURT.

There’s a reason that Mythic felt it was cool, from a balance standpoint, to do away with the Empire and DE heavy tanks…

Everchosen - September 16, 2008

They’re tough, yes, but they’re not that tough. The only 1v1 battle I’ve had vs one I came out on top, as a Chosen. And they have to walk up into the front lines in order to heal, meaning they usually wind up the target of an assist train.

Much like Witch Hunters, they’re tough cookies in a 1v1 match, but if people are smart enough to focus fire them right at the start of the battle (before they can get morale heals ready to roll) then they will die before they can even get off a heal. Of course, there are tricks to avoid getting focused, but I think I’ll keep those up my sleeve.

Danath - September 16, 2008

WP are actually balanced in their own way for large pvp conflicts, they are a FRONT LINE healer and are more prone to getting beat on than say shaman or rune priest or other healer types who use mainly ranged abilities, their increased durability reflects the fact that they can be pummed on the front lines.

And like ive said, if you put out enough damage to break their heals they die INCREDIBLY fast… but are unlikely to die from random unfocused damage.

Danath - September 16, 2008

BTW hate to spam post but their damage does need rebalancing, im not disputing that point, just the survivability.

Taugrim - September 17, 2008

3-shot by a WP in T2? That sounds like a gross exaggeration to me. I’d love to see how that is even possible.

The melee skills of a WP do low damage, which translates to low burst damage. The tooltip damage amounts are very low.

A WP beats people by wearing them down.

Even if a WP stacked Str and spec’d into Wrath (which is a garbage tree compared to the other 2), I can’t see how a WP could 3-shot anyone who was at full health.

Taugrim - September 17, 2008

“I can’t stop healing myself when a WP gets on me or I will literally die in 2 seconds. Graev was 3 shot by a WP 20 min ago in Stonetroll Crossing”

A WP will get 1 (one) melee skill in 2 seconds. One. And an auto-attack to boot. Even with Bolster in T2 (buff to R18 numbers), offhand I don’t think any of the WP abilities are even in the 3-digits for tooltip damage.

Can you ask Graev to post the Combat Log data?

I’m playing a R13 BW now, and BW can certainly blow people away.

Lawvalamp - September 17, 2008

yeah, if you bring up the warrior priest, you cant go without mentioning the DoK.

Gerbil - September 17, 2008

My impression with my DoK has been that both warrior priests and disciples scale very well in the first 15 or so levels, but that other classes begin to fairly clearly outstrip them in terms of damage done, damage taken, and healing done after that point.

I haven’t seen either of the two classes be that much of a menace in tier 2, except possibly against individual squishies.

Ezmode - September 17, 2008

let me guess the WP was lvl 21, and you are battle ranked in some crappy gear with 9% melee mitigation, level up gear up and then STFU, warrior priests are one of the worst dps in the game, and one of the weakest classes in the game at max lvl

Malik - September 17, 2008

LOL i cant believe you fell for that keen how could you not see this coming (through i cant have an opinion cose i don’t have it yet )

Josh - September 17, 2008

I utterly agree with transitive. This belongs on a forum somewhere, at best. I’m very dissapointed to click on your blog and see a post like this.

Fugazi - September 17, 2008

Talking about balance without R40 and at least first set of “end-game” gear is pointless.

Also DoKs are/will be even more OP because they DW (so they proc their “50% melee speed” tactic more often) and lovely “when crit you have 100% MS on you” tactic 🙂

Jeremy T - September 17, 2008

To echo others:

L2P

Gork - September 17, 2008

“Stop!”, said Gork.

PeZzy - September 17, 2008

I played a WP in beta and it’s not as good as you make it seem. Healing isn’t all that great. I think this is a case of “the other side is overpowered”.

and when Gork sez stop…you stop. 🙂

Russell Gusto - September 17, 2008

One word:

SIGMAR

Keen
Keen - September 17, 2008

I can see who plays order here and who doesn’t even have the game but plans to play order. 😉

If you guys want to challenge my ability to play, I welcome the challenge. Wolfenburg server – you name the time and place. This “L2P” crap gets thrown around a lot… I remember when I called AoC out and was told to L2P. This is when I get to say “I told you so”. Give it a few weeks.

As for this belonging on my blog – get real folks. I’ll post whatever I want to on my blog. I’m playing Destruction and we’re being completely obliterated by 4-5man Warrior Priest groups. What do I have to do? Fraps that BS for you for you to believe it?

River - September 17, 2008

Keen – I am in one hundred percent agreement. It’s sick that as a Rank 11 Chosen it takes me literally 5 -10 minutes to kill a rank 6 Warrior Priest. These guys need a serious nerf. Now I don’t mind in PvE they are some sort of Pally Tank. But first I had to deal with the Bright Wizard army, now it’s the Warrior Priest army. I swear last scenerio I played had 10 Warrior Priests, and they were owning.

LtWarhound - September 17, 2008

Well, yes, FRAPS it. You are making claims that based on our personal experience coupled with the hard numbers from the game, well, what you are claiming doesn’t match up.

Seriously, FRAPS it, then you can get away with posts like this. Otherwise, I’ll assume that you just didn’t notice the ranged DPS shooting you while the WP was in your face.

Keen
Keen - September 17, 2008

Alrighty, I’ll Fraps it.

I may have only been testing since the end of June but I’ve played long enough to realize who it is attacking me. 😉

Graktar - September 17, 2008

This again? I’ve come to expect better of you Keen than this.

Last time it was “zomg I got 3 shot by a swordmaster in T2 before I could even move so I’m going to go all WoW forums on you guys!”

“Literally” killed in 2 seconds by a WP? Sorry, no. Nobody can kill anybody level appropriate in this game in 2 seconds from full health 1v1. Even a max crit fireball from a Bright Wizard isn’t going to 1-shot a level appropriate target (and that takes 3s, btw).

If you want to give yourself even a modicum of credibility on this issue you need to bitch about the Disciple of Khaine as well, which is, after all, pretty much the same fricking class. What’s that? *crickets* Yeah.

To paraphrase yourself, we know who’s playing destruction here.

Just FYI, I’m playing both sides equally on different servers with different guilds. Proper balance on both sides is to my benefit. Gross exaggeration against a single class is . . . unbecoming.

German - September 17, 2008

Alright, I’ll take your so called “challenge”. Name any class right now! Give me 2 days to level it up, and I will take you on 1 on 1. But I sure as hell better see you post your loss here with equal ineptitude. Any class.

Havalina - September 17, 2008

Seriously, has it started this quickly? Are we going to start with the nerf cries already? The game is not “out” yet for the general market, and we have to start hearing assinine nerf cries? This is your “blog”, and you can post whatever you want, but is coming out like a baby how you want to be? “This is MY blog, and I’ll post what I think is wrong so there!” Well, good luck with this blog. With that attitude you’ll be the only one reading it. Have fun with yourself.

StarSlinger - September 17, 2008

The problem with WP is that they start awesome and end awesome. By level 40 they are manageable with the proper counters… during the rest of the game (starting around level 8) you are much better than the majority of other classes…

DoK is not as bad, I think mostly because 2H weapons create more burst dmg/healing than dual wield weapons… The WP is also more defensive-orientated than the DoK, which translates much better for his role in RvR. You live langer, you can do more damage/healing.

You see this in the RP vs Zealot comparison… RP is basically better because he has better self and group defense options… Zealots just get more dps tools; none of which are very inspiring…

StarSlinger - September 17, 2008

er 8) = 8

Vadren - September 17, 2008

You’d give yourself more credibility if you posted the ranks of graeve/yourself and the rank of the warrior priest.

Even with bolstering the difference in levels in a scenario has a huge impact.

Keen
Keen - September 17, 2008

@Vadren: 14 Shaman (me) 15 Squig (Graev) Lvl 15 WP wrecked us (individually) and the group of 4 WP’s (Lvls 13-16) wrecked an entire group of us. They were well organized, I’ll give them that. But so were we.

hambone - September 17, 2008

Sounds like whiny baby stuff to me…

Seems odd that the only classes you cry for nerfs on is Order classes and you play Destruction – you FAIL.

Zederok - September 17, 2008

LOL WP OP’ed…. Good one Keen. Seiously most Eldars will tell you that the DoK and WP are 2 of the worst classes in game, sure we are decent in 1v1 but this game is based on grp v grp and if your dieing to a WP or a DoK then your doing something wrong.

LEARN2KITE BRAH….

To Starslinger: WP is worse all around then a DoK due to talents we recieve as a DoK and our Covenants are 10X better then WP Prayers.

GOD what I wouldnt give to have the EAMythic Beta forums back up and show you post after post after post just how sub-par the WP and DoK are.

Me thinks you need to learn2play a bit. ANY TANK or a BW/Sorc shuts down the melee healer like so easy.

monstron - September 17, 2008

You can’t post stuff about classes under your adrenaline burst man, we all are fucked up when we are into a fight.

Next time just avoid stuff like this under that state.

I don’t have a WP and i won’t make any, i will die from them and ill be so pissed at times, but that’s it.

I hope they fix them so they are a good class as the rest, that’s all.

no offense

Malik - September 17, 2008

you can post what ever you want but i still cant believe you didn’t see this flaming coming ….. anyway rest of the blog is great keep up the good work?

Keen
Keen - September 17, 2008

I saw the flaming coming. I totally accept it too, which is why this isn’t locked.

An interesting observation though… the biggest flamers are Warrior Priests. 🙂

Zederok - September 17, 2008

ive been following your blog since the start of Beta and for the most part I enjoy it very much, but you have been an adamant proponet for the nerfing of WP’s and DoK’s for a while and its a bit stale especially if you ever played 1 and understood jsut how mediocre they are in any thing cept 1v1 pve and 1v1 PvP vs non tanks/BW & Sorcerers.

Zederok - September 17, 2008

1 Other thing, TANKS are what you should be harping out about being OP!

Lumio - September 17, 2008

just gotta agree that DoK’s are equally broken, we had 4 people on one DoK and didnt end up killing him.

Keen
Keen - September 17, 2008

I saw smoke from the homepage. Is everyone in here alright?

Danath - September 17, 2008

Im not flaming, and im not argueing with WPs needing a bit of rebalancing in terms of damage, in terms of survivability as a front line melee fighter though they are pretty much on par with where they need to be.

monstron - September 17, 2008

May i also add this?
It’s better to buff the rest than nerf someone.
It will make some ppl sad whatever the cause.

Btw anyone got any idea how the classes are at lvl 40? because noone is there yet..

StarSlinger - September 17, 2008

Except those who were Elder beta testers…

Taugrim - September 17, 2008

@Keen:

No one is disputing the durability / survivability of a WP. They’re incredibly hard to kill. I can certainly understand people concerned that WPs (or DoKs, or whatever) are a PITA to kill.

What I find ignorant is the comment that a WP can kill a Shammy in 2 seconds, or 3-shot anyone from full health in RVR.

Your only real response has been:
“I can see who plays order here and who doesn’t even have the game but plans to play order.”

This has nothing to do with what classes people play or with skill. Mathematically a WP *can’t* 3-shot anyone. Their damage skill mechanics don’t support it.

Heck, I play a BW (e.g. here is one of my narrated videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHrGLOPLSic), and 3-shotting is only possible if Fireball, Mage Bolt (Morale 1 ability), and Sear all crit at 100% Combustion back-to-back-to-back.

Paper - September 18, 2008

Fix Scissor. Rock is fine!

Snafzg - September 18, 2008

Didn’t read all 50 comments, but I’m sure someone pointed this out:

I’m quite sure Mythic was aware of their overpoweredness, however, thems the breaks when you cut out a tank class of that race and roll “the good parts” of his abilities into another class.

It’s friday, it’s five to five and it’s… the links? « Book of Grudges - September 18, 2008

[…] any Warrior Priests out there looking for an Open PvP server US-side? Keen wants you to roll on Wolfenburg. Sounds like they are running a bit short on Order to gank there too. You know Sigmar would […]

Nollind Whachell - September 19, 2008

@Zederok: Don’t find tanks overpowered at all. Think they are just right. I mean they obviously need higher survivability to handle massive amounts of hits on them on the front lines. That said they can be taken down and I’ve been testing out a Swordmaster (no shield, just 2h) and a Engineer in this regard. Both are pretty good tank killers in battle (with the Engineer being at total hoot to play).

I’ve actually like running forward behind our tank line (2 or 3 tanks) and started wailing with my Engineer’s shot gun (40′ dmg spread) against the opposing enemy tank line (Black Orcs and Chosen). While the dmg isn’t massive from the shotgun, it is pretty all encompassing, and I can knock out at least one or two tanks if I can get four or five shots off. Again that’s because our entire team is pounding on them as well and my shotgun’s fire is rapid, quickly lowering their health enough so that the range casters can finish them off.

Same goes with the Swordmaster, get in on a tank, utilize taunt to increase dmg and utilize my morale to drop their armor, then start pounding on them. I’m actually amazed at the survivability of the Swordmaster WITHOUT a shield. However, I got my butt handed to me on a platter by a 7th level Marauder out in the wilds when I was 8th level. Little perplexed over this. Assuming he had decent reknown gear plus some potion buffs (didn’t check), plus I wasn’t popping my evade attack as much as I should have (since I don’t have a shield).

Jeremy T - September 22, 2008

So, after seeing this thread (and being underwhelmed with my lowbie WP in open beta), I went and rolled a DoK to try and figure out what the deal is. And now I honestly have to say I have no idea what Keen’s talking about.

After getting an archmage to 10 and getting my DoK up to 14, I really believe that the DoK / WP is going to be the poorest of the healers in the long run.

What’s there to complain about here? We’ve got a healer that’s dramatically mana restricted unless he’s meleeing, and (at least as far as I saw) has no large direct heal.

Now, he’s got a basic amount of HPS he can keep active forever with his lifetaps and HoTs, and it’s true that this is enough to outlast most single attackers. This is basically true with all the healers though – this is not unique to this mechanic.

I was having to really, really work with the DoK to get to the top of the healing charts. I found topping the healing charts positively trivial with the Shaman and Archmage – it was only in rare circumstances that I would be outhealed on those classes, and then it was usually a Runepriest / Zealot or somebody of much higher level. With the DoK, I only top the charts about half the time or less, and when I do it’s always still close. Now, in exchange for that, I am seeing better damage numbers than I would normally get on the shaman/archmage, and I think that this is to be expected.

I’m just not seeing the problem. I find the class really interesting, and it’s annoying as hell to fight one 1 on 1, but it generally is not great at killing things and is only able to survive to the extent that his HoTs can keep him alive. His armor is better than the other healers, but it has to be since he can’t keep his mana up unless he’s on the front lines.

Keen is wrong, wrong, wrong, and WAR balance — Looking For Grog! - September 23, 2008

[…] What could he be thinking? […]

Cthon - September 29, 2008

I agree with you Keen. My level 19 Chosen just spent 5 minutes trying to whittle down a level 13 Warrior Priest.

This was not in a RvR area either, this was near one of the Order PQs near Trollhaugen. She attacked me on the road so I attacked back, you know, thinking “Oh, she’s only level 13”.

Whenever I got close to killing her she just healed back up to full until eventually a witch hunter and someone else came and killed me. I just gave up fighting, seemed pointless.

Exiler - October 16, 2008

LOL…QQ lil goblin…You’re like the kid from back in the days, that owned the basketball but owned no skills to go with it and would always get left out of the game, then threaten to take his ball home, only to get his lil teeth knocked out for crying like a baby instead of spending that time, hrmmm…Maybe practicing to improve his lack of skill eh? Anyways, if ya really think the WP and/or DoK are OP…Delete ya Squig Herder and reroll one of the OP classes…After all, if ya can’t beat em, join em. Or just hit the ballcourt and get some practice in. BTW, I am a squig Herder and I own WP around my lvl. Hit me up sometime and maybe I will give ya a few pointers lil goblin. Laaate!

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