AoC = Another Raiding Treadmill… #$%*

I just hope all the PVPers don’t look the same like in WoW. The addition of the required “resilience” has made every pvper of the same class in WoW look the same. I find that highly annoying.

I doubt I’ll do many raids, but who knows yet. Depends how long they take and such.

@KT, thank Blizz for only having single sets of armor for each class at each raid or pvp/arena level. AoC has over 1500 unique armor sets.

@Keen, I’m just as disapointed as you are with this relevation. My friends and I left WoW after we couldn’t take any more raiding to stay geared to compete in world pvp and BG’s, and only came back the last several months after the changes of PvP gear which improved the game greatly for us. Although the direction Blizz is taking again locking down gear may have changed that for the worse again converting “pvp” to just arena’s for cookie cutter teams with the top gear.

Any case, I’ll stick it out like you to see how the game shapes up, but if it turns into another PvE grindfest and raid game in order to compete in PvP I’ll be out of there.

As for the PvP advancement, it’s likely you see players attempt to do Win trading like they did in WoW, or as you suggest employing tactics or ignoring objectives and moving as groups so they never die. I pity the casual pug player that pops into a quick game..

Really this just blows me away, I don’t even see how the dev’s felt this was in the spirit of Conan, it feels tacked on like they didn’t know what to do for an endgame, short of stealing WoW’s flawed system.

I actually am looking forward to that, although I wish they capped it at 10 instead of 25.

Sorry Keen.

Oh, and that death penalty? Hahahaha. That’s easy mode. Two or three kills to recover from a death? Try playing EverQuest sometime.

If it will only be WoW style raiding at the level cap as as a reasonable PvE option, then play to the level cap and then leave or play alts, simple as that. Assuming the way up there is fun, of course.

It is Funcom’s loss in that case, not yours.

One day, a company will realize that rewards for being a hardcore player should be presented as mostly cosmetic changes…

awesome titles, cooler looking armor, access to more convenient (but not better) NPC resources, extra emotes, more chat colors, access to different chat channels, boosts to alts, etc.

By tying gear to progression in this way, you actively limit who can see high-end content. Wouldn’t it make more sense if *everyone* was competitive? If everyone could reasonably grind out gear solo, then you’d have people raiding and pvping for prestige.

that prestige is reward enough. There’s no need to tie your ability to beat a specific dungeon or a specific player to your gear that you can only get through a horrific grind.

Bleh. AoC wasn’t ultra-exciting for me, but this news makes me sure I won’t even bother with a trial.

Ah, yeah. I know you’ve played a lot of games. It occurred to me that my comment sounded a little harsh when I left it (but sadly, you can’t edit your comments).

I just meant that the penalty isn’t as bad as it could be (and may actually be interesting).

After reading this, im glad that my original plan was simply to level one toon from 1 to 80 and get hired as a merc to try some siege PvP.

Ill be lucky if i can accomplish all that before WAR goes Gold.

No need to worry about the raiding.

Try WAR, come back later on and make another Conan Alt.

Im expecting 2-3 years of altaholic switch between WAR and AoC 😛

@Hexx

I think you got it right there buddy. I am so sick of the set up of old WOW where we would raid to get gear to pvp successfully then they just added more so we would have to start over and it was never ending.

Instead of giving the people who already excel at a certain area such a PVP better weapons just to further dominate give them special or unique mounts, not faster ones, just different. People would still play to get cool things like that, I know I know I would.

That PvP death penalty is pretty harsh. If that was the PvE death penalty, then yeah, that’s nothing, but for PvP that’s brutal. I’m assuming though that kills are shared within groups (group of 6 kills 1 guy, all 6 group members are credited with 1 kill) or the system is completely untenable for all but the most elite of PvPers.

Assuming kills are credited to all in the group,it kind of promotes ‘kill trading’. Since groups CAN talk to each other in AoC, Guild 1 group of 20 people agrees to battle Guild 2 group of 20 people. Guild 1 rushes up and . . . stands there to be slaughtered. Each person suffers 1 death, every member of Guild 2 gets 20 kills. Guild 1 comes back, Guild 2 stands there to be slaughtered. Every member of Guild 1 gains 20 kills worth of xp (net gain 17) and every member of Guild 2 takes 1 death (net gain of 17). Rinse and repeat as diminishing returns allows.

I suspect it’s more likely that the xp for kills is split evenly with no bonuses, or simply not shared with the group at all. In that case, you end up in a negative-sum xp environment which is positively brutal. If kill xp is split evenly or not shared, then the sum total of xp distributed for kills is 1/3rd the sum total of xp lost to deaths, as any player that gets a kill results in another player getting a death penalty equal to 3 kills. You cannot have more kills than deaths in the game, so unless you’re one of the select few with the skill or luck to almost never die, nobody is going to get much out of pvp. I hope it’s really fun then, because that’s going to be the only reward. If it’s not fun because you just get steamrolled all the time, the PvP side of the game will die out.

@Hexx (15)

You win at MMORPG design. 🙂

@Bartlebe (18)

MMO devs are still stuck in the past (MUD model). Each game that comes out brings a couple new ideas to the genre but there hasn’t been a single MMORPG, including WoW, that completely reinvented the wheel. Nor will there be, because when a studio is risking tens of millions of dollars, they want something that can guarantee them a modicum of success.

A non-XP system like TF2 would be cool, but I don’t think it would work for an MMORPG. Look how easy it is to put down FPS games. It’s because your character isn’t getting any better, even though your skill might. People still want to see little blue bubbles work their way across the screen and they want the flashiest new toy to show off (and beat you over the head with).

@Graktar (25)

Hahaha, you hacked the game already and it isn’t even out yet! Brilliant! 🙂

While the end game play disappoints alot of people, you have to look at it like this, 90% of the player base of a typical MMO wants casual, non PvP environment, it is all about making the majority happy to make money

With it being states that PvE gear is the best, while it may be, there is still 2 avenues to get gear that may surpass PvE gear, PvP and crafted. Most PvP gear is good and the high end crafted gear is very good, but falls out of disuse very quickly.

I am holding out my final thought as the game has not been released yet with so many unknowns, it is hard to theorycraft anything.

I re-read the information on IGN, it states that the raiding starts at the level cap, This may become something that isn’t to bad of a inconvience since the content will be limited until the first free content update or expansion anyways. Although if everyone looks the same after getting the gear that would be “typical” if I may use that term. I still want “Crafting” the repetitive in game feature to be the primary source of great gear or equivilant gear. Why do games make crafting useless are Level XX ? It basically breaks the system because anyone really interested in a game will get to level XX eventually…

HELLO GANKFEST!

Losing XP for deaths will encourage people to sit at exploitable/advantageous positions such as zone walls, camp vendors or portals and ..

HORRAY! IT’S EVE GATE CAMPING WITH SWORDS!

Thank you for the post. I just don’t remember WoW PvPers raiding much. All the PVP guilds I knew started raiding way past their ascedency to the top in PVP, just to show how easy it was. PVE gear was usually considered inferior to PVP gear anyway for PVP, even in purple to blue comparisons (with exceptions to prove the rule of course). And solid PVPers werent very sought after in Raiding guilds due to their time constraints. I think this is evidenced by how far behind on raiding content PVP servers are.

I understand the quest for skill only pvp, but that game is called a FPS IMHO.

I did read your post BTW, and for the record, enjoy reading them all. I just disagree with your take on this point.

Man i am totally upset about hearing these revelations. I used to raid hard core in wow for 1.5 years, but then i got married and have a real life now.

i dont have time for 3 hours a night 4 days a week minimum raiding.

losing ex in PVP is such a retarded idea, it just helps cheaters and gankers.

I left wow to come to this game, and now its just gonna be another wow clone, with a shittier UI and with all new bugs and problems 🙁

There’s no reason to have PvP competitiveness based on gear.

PvP has plenty of areas for competition…

Player skill.
Class choice.
Spec choice.
Team Construction.
Synergy.
Communication.
Connection.
Gear *choice*.

Ideally, you’ll have a situation where you can *choose* your class, spec, teamates, and gear. Combine that with skill and communication and you win or lose.

I agree that MMOs thrive on ‘upgrades’, but gear imbalances aren’t the way to do things.

Imagine if you were playing Quake, and only the person with the best frags-to-date can get Quad Damage and Railguns, and everyone else keeps shotguns?

that’s waht ‘the best PvP gear goes to the best players’ does… it makes it so if you want to be the best, you need to start early, get your points, and then fight to keep them. Initially, it will be a fun fight, because no one is geared.

But as soon as someone is geared, and they get a huge handicap? That’s ridiculous… in fact it’s backwards of how real competition is designed. If I want to play golf against Tiger Woods, he shouldn’t start the round at -5 because he’s better than me. We should both start at zero, at minimum.

I’m a huge fan of PvP systems, but the concept that ‘the best players get the best gear’ is one that has to go away. reward players for being the best, but don’t destroy fair play in the process. WoW at least makes it so you’ll *eventually* be able to get the gear, AoC is actively designing a system where only the very top tier get the gear, which means the people best able to take a shot at the title have an extra handicap to overcome… ridiculous. There’s no reason you can’t reward the best in other ways, and keep the competition on an even playing field.

The more and more I hear about AoC in a whole, the more is seems like they have copied DAOC exactly, from the whole rewards thing from PvP, this is the same a “realm points” in DAOC, with which you could buy realm abilities that would help you fight. In comparison ragarding raiding, in DAOC you had to raid to get various “epic” items to make yourself good etc. and it worked well, but the difference in my opinion was not that you needed 40 to get the item, you maybe only needed say 1fg, the problem largely in the begining was the spawn, trying to catch the monster while 1000s were looking for that same one was a nightmare. I have came to accept that in ANY MMORPG there will be raid to get epic gear, irrelevant of what the circumstances are, there is always going to be gamers who spend all there time playing games and trying to get the “unicorn” of the game. This is why the programers put these items in the game , to give hordes of people something to go for and make them stand out. Otherwise Mr X who has been playing the game for X amount of years looks the same as billy no mates who has just hit lvl 80 and thinks hes playing a healer when really hes playing a out and out tank..

So I hate to admit it , but raiding is a part of any MMORPG, and belive me knowing mythic and how terrible they really are after 5 years of pathetic customer services to myself and the rest of the DAOC population. there will be raiding in WAR, I will bet my left nut on that one.

Billy no mates. Hahah. I had a good laugh at that one. The perfect non-RP server assassin name.

@Pellious

Eh, that’s 3 days there, my man. Telling me that on May 23rd, people that have been playing 72 hours straight (and people will) will be max level?

From what I have been hearing is that there is 240 hours of play to get to lvl 80, in comparison to DAOC which was only lvl 50, it took 8 days play time.

8×24 = 192

Im just hoping that people still have reason to login and play most nights because of this raiding thing. In WoW some only realy logged in for a few hours a week only at raiding times. Especially on a PvP server where people lose interest in trying to get PvP ranked gear, because only those that zerg the most will get it.

The PvP servers would be totally empty until raid night, even then you couldnt get too many kills because the raids only pass the outdoor places once every few nights.

I expect the PvP raiding to be similar to Shadowbane where people just blocked a path to the casters and whoever stayed too close instantly died to a mass of range classes. After a while people began alliances and a few servers just ended up being 2-3 gigantic zergs.

Of course the smaller well organised guilds could take over a few mines and cities, however it became impossible for the smaller guilds to do anything once the zergs turned up.

Maybe AoC PvP will keep the mid sized guilds, but as people bring more and more people to compensate for sucking the first will start those alliances and everything outdoor or seige wise becomes a zerg.

I think I’ve said it before many blog post ago. AoC will just be filler untill WAR shows up.

So, if you pace your AoC carrier out correctly you could maybe hit level 80 a week before WAR goes Open Beta.

Personally im not happy with this news either.
I want to play this game for fun, not leave sleep or other irl stuff so i will be able to raid enough for the things i want.

With reading stuff about PvP im having very STRONG doubts on rolling on a PvP server, seems the more reasons it will be just a non stop ganking fest. Any thoughts on this?
The sence of danger is nice, so is the ffa pvp rule.
But this will mean what? A pk every 5 min or more?

Im strongly considering on rolling on a normal server.
Anyone is having the same thoughts about this PvP aspect?

Regards Sefran.

Was thinking the exact same thing there Keen.
Thought i saw a article that all important features are in the Border Kingdom (high lvl wise that is).

PvP as Pve (rare gather mats etc). Correct me if im wrong though.

Seems like the normal server will be a far more enjoyable game experience.
Although i strongly hope Open Beta will give me the insight i need for this before Retail hits and i have to make the choice between PvP or Normal

My opinion on this whole mess…raiding is lame and has no place in this game as far as gear progression. And they’ve stated several times in the past that the best gear in the game will be from crafting.

I love how they have a harse penalty for dieing in pvp. That will eliminate the bad players that sit on here for hours on end to gain ranks. I don’t understand why you’re so worried about zerging. If 10 guys zerg 1 player, doesn’t that mean they all get 1/10th of the credit. Thus meaning they need to kill 30 people for every 1 death. If that’s the case theres going to be a lot of small groups running around pvping as there should be. Or else it will take that huge group forever.

And yes there needs to be something given to the better pvpers for their progression besides looks. WOW pre bc was fun. There was a lot of decked out players in pvp gear that were very challenging to fight against. Some of them you knew they were always going to be with 2-3 of their friends everytime. We looked for those people. After the expansion, everyone had the same gear. There was no one worth killing.

The other thing, wow’s version 1 pvp system required players to play countless hours everyday to keep progressing because how much they advanced was based on which percentage they fell under. They didnt get a penalty for dieing or sucking. AOC’s system allows casuals to advance, just not as fast. As it should be. But they aren’t punished because they are unable to play constantly. Originally in wow if say you went on vacation while making a run for rank 14, you would lose so much. AOC you won’t. You’ll be getting exp on every kill going towards the next level, not having to worry if you have the most honor on your server that week to level a certain percent. You guys say its the same or similar. I don’t see a comparison.

Iam with Cameron on the exp penatly with pvp. Makes for an intersting game, possibly frustrating but then where is the tension, the sweaty palms in a pvp areana with out some sort of threat. As long as the rewards for winning out weigh the penalty it will make for some fun encounters …. conan is going to be a brutal game, so were the books ….

As for raiding, iam not a big raider but if like you there is an option for a few raids every week then iam cool with that. Find a great guild, like the older gamers and you will be set ….

They’ve said that only crafted items will have sockets. Up to 4 sockets per armor/weapon in different sizes or what not. The gems that are added will make the gear better than looted gear. Although some rare gems will be from raiding, which you can just buy from someone. So you aren’t forced to raid unless something drastic has changed from what they’ve been saying for awhile now. And for pvp and gaining ranks…i believe they’re giving the higher levels additional feats as well as armor. So even if crafted gear was better for pvp, the best pvpers will have a reason to compete still. And some people just dont like gathering mats. Either way, whether its from gathering/crafting, raiding, or pvping the armor should all be fairly close.

And maybe this applies…they’ve said crafting schematics come from quests. Maybe by saying the best gear comes from raiding…maybe there’s crafting quests that involve killing raid bosses to get a certain component. I know you’ll have to gather materials to make something to show the master trainer before learning a weapon/armor schematic. So we may only have to kill a boss once, and not spend months doing it over and over.

heres some super old DEV quotes someone pulled up from the forums.

interpret them as you wish, i have a feeling some of their vision has changed since late ‘O6

Jayde Freitag, 11. August 2006

raids DO NOT equal tedium.
raids DO NOT have to be long or boring.
raids DO NOT have to involve spamming 1 button for 6 hours.
raids DO NOT mean you have to do them every day of the week.

..Stuff like that…that’s just the way that SOME raids in SOME games were designed. Honestly, some of you guys could benifit to play more games than WoW and possibly EQ.

ALL “raids” imply is a singular premise: A raid requires more than 1 group to complete. That’s all. No more, no less. It means the scale is bigger.

Quote:
Athelan Montag, 06. Februar 2006

Content needs to be consumable for all players, this is the crux of the issue not raids, not hardcore not how as long as you can get access to it in some way.

raids are fun, raids will be in Conan, not as the sole way to obtain the super fantastic amazing item of doom, but as challenging encounters to unite guilds to purpose and to put all the unique aspects of the game into glorious battles.

Quote:
Athelan Dienstag, 11. Oktober 2005

I think it is an inherent flaw in these systems that bases your “rank” of quantity of PvP participation/kills. The systems themselves are designed to recognize “PvPers” and their abilities but in the end its just a time sink in the current implementations.

I think it was a big mistake to put items/gear as a PvP reward that rivaled or was better than gear gained in raids. It made PvP into a treadmill instead of recognizing the true champions.

In Conan our PvP rewards will be based around PvP so they will be useful to a PvP player but will not imbalance the rest of the game for everyone else.

Quote:
Athelan Dienstag, 19. September 2006

No we are not going to make PvE items worthless in PvP. That would be a pretty ignorant thing to do. Probably more ignorant than not considering the point you bring up about “raid” geared people dominating PvP. With the possibilities for crafted armor tailored through gems and even the potential for PvP stat specific gems that could be used in crafting I see no reason to worry. Its all about balance, which isnt going to be possible until said items exist for comparison will it

Quote:
Jayde Freitag, 22. September 2006

Most of the craftable items will be from storebought components or materials gathered in the resource and building playfields. At the high-end, however, the best enhanced versions of items or recipes will occasionally require components that drops from mobs instead of just being gathered.

Quote:
Athelan Montag, 11. September 2006

So lets say I have +20 to my stats through PvP. It very well could make up for the fact I am somewhat lower level or have less gear than a raiding guy, but I probably cant be a naked level 25 with a high PvP level and beat a guy who is level 80 and been raiding.

Well I’ll still try it out. Definately not looking forward to a raid A for B to C…like you mentioned but I do want to see a new “World” so I’ll try it. If I get to 80 and am not enjoying it then I’ll quit.
My playtime:
UO-3mths
Eq=9mths
CoH=2mths
WoW (first time) =7mths
Wow (2nd time after 6mth break)=8mths
AoC=tbd, 2mths? 6mths, up to them to make a great game. otherwise I’ll be in WAR.

I treat em like I beat em and quit when they are not fun.

If it turns out that high end crafted gear is on par with raid gear I’d certainly be willing to give AoC a shot. The IGN article didn’t give that impression, but it all comes down to what game materializes at launch.

game is not even out yet and we are already kicking it for having a a bull endgame? when tabula rasa came out 70% of the quests past level 30 did not work for months! mmo games evolve. devs HAVE to focus right now on game mechanics and fist 30 or so levels and i doubt the end game will get hashed out until a year from now

Actually I found PVP’ing easier in WoW with non PVP gear back before TBC. Since TBC, grinding out honor became a necessary evil to survive at all in Arena or BGs (due to resilience, which I hate). Even though I had NO shot at the best pvp weapons, the truth is neither did 95% of the other people I played against. They were pretty much all in instance and crafted loot like I was. As it stands now, you HAVE to spend hours grinding boring BGs for gear just to have the same as your opponent.

I also believe most hardcore raiders will be spending their time raiding, not pvp’ing. So those that have the best gear will be great against a AI enemy, but it will take them a long time to learn to defeat skilled players who spent all their time PVP’ing and not raiding.

@ MrVenom
I am totally with you bro. Cheers

@MrVenom

Keep in mind this is a business, one they paid quite a lot of money for already. No matter how much they might agree with you, they are going to make the game that the most amount of people will buy and continue to pay for for years to come. If wow has shown us anything, it’s that have to grind for everything(raid loot, pvp loot and even now with repeatable quests) keeps people paying.

I for one loved raiding in that game, working hard with a group you like and achieving a goal not every “casual” random person could. Same with pvp, if every single person could get the best gear it wouldn’t be fun to get the best gear. For a lot of people being the best(or close to it)is the reason they play and the reason they pay.

Every decision they make will make some people mad whilst make others overjoyed. They can’t please everyone, I think they will simply go with what they can make more $$$ off of.

I for one don’t trust IGN’s reporting at all. Until I see more reputable sources saying the same thing, I’m going to reserve judgment.

That being said, we don’t 100% know what AoC’s PVE aspects will be like. To the best of my knowledge, no one has played end game yet. Maybe they’ll be so much fun we’ll be excited to decide between PvP and raiding. I doubt it too, but I don’t know. The fact is any similarity (no matter how vague or unspecific) to WoW sends people, who have quit playing WoW, running for the hills. It’s understandable. WoW is one of the most monstrous time sinks ever. It consumes your entire life, and leaves nothing but maxed characters 10 levels below than the new level cap in its wake.

So, again, we’ll see. I’m not going to go worship at the altar of Warhammer, just because of some IGN article.

@skullforged

What a wonderful idea you have, Hmm.. I would still pay for a game like that and enjoy it very much. When you create your character there could be a bunch of check boxes. The ones that you check would send you to different servers. Sure you have to grind and I don’t mind the grinding to get xp and materials to make items with. But you can choose what type of ” player ” you are. Lets say for (1).Hardcore you play the game the way it’s ment to be played at full force even if the odds stack against you. When you die you die.) (2). Raid player, This type of player can log on all day and all night and hang with the guild and do raids till his or her eyes bleed. (3). Casual player, this player logs on and can have fun exploring and grinding just like the other players, but they can do an instance by themselves or with a group. If they do it alone the monsters just get a bit hard to do but not impossible. If they bring more players in the instance gets tougher. This for me would have great replay value for a price. I can put the game down if I wanted to and come back to it 3 years later, pay a monthly fee just like everyone else and continue on my quests. Without trying to get a group going or a certain class of characters together. I would gladly pay to be on that server. If I come by some guildmates or other travlers that want to join fine, if not thats ok too.

I know this is slightly off topic and i should post it somewhere else, but does anyone have just a slight idea if AoC is working on Lunux Ubuntu with no adds like Wine and shit like you need for other games? And what about Mac? I’m pretty sceptical of the “Games for Windows” logo

Well I hoped for a system, like it was in guild wars, where PvE Hardcore players hadn’t absolutely no advantage to others in PvP, they only had the coolest looking armor. 🙂
(there was no difference of pvp and pve chars, because you could unlock everything (upgrades, skills etc), you could get in pve and so only the skill counts)

Anyway I guess, you should wait untill you know how strong the advantage of 24/7 hardcore raiders is. It would be fine, if there is just a little advantage. I think it could be possible to balance that in a good way, although I’m quite sceptical about this.

@47 “The more and more I hear about AoC in a whole, the more is seems like they have copied DAOC exactly, from the whole rewards thing from PvP, this is the same a “realm points” in DAOC, with which you could buy realm abilities that would help you fight. In comparison ragarding raiding, in DAOC you had to raid to get various “epic” items to make yourself good etc. and it worked well, but the difference in my opinion was not that you needed 40 to get the item, you maybe only needed say 1fg, the problem largely in the begining was the spawn, trying to catch the monster while 1000s were looking for that same one was a nightmare. I have came to accept that in ANY MMORPG there will be raid to get epic gear, irrelevant of what the circumstances are, there is always going to be gamers who spend all there time playing games and trying to get the “unicorn” of the game. This is why the programers put these items in the game , to give hordes of people something to go for and make them stand out. Otherwise Mr X who has been playing the game for X amount of years looks the same as billy no mates who has just hit lvl 80 and thinks hes playing a healer when really hes playing a out and out tank..

So I hate to admit it , but raiding is a part of any MMORPG, and belive me knowing mythic and how terrible they really are after 5 years of pathetic customer services to myself and the rest of the DAOC population. there will be raiding in WAR, I will bet my left nut on that one.”

-This is exactly why I felt that Asherons call was the best MMO game in history, raiding didnt mean squat, the loot in that game was about getting lucky with drops, which means even a lvl 1 rabbit (well not exactly but you get the meaning) could drop the +9 uber vorpal sword of pure ownage and this meant that everyone and anyone could have access to the best gear in the game cause you spent your entire gaming experiance constantly farming/selling/trading to min/max your character and it worked well. Basically it was Diablo in a MMO form.

Basicly, i’ve lost all my respect for Funcom by now, my first thoughts about the game was “WoW, at last there are some people thinging in right ways and making a game all people can enjoy. And the world of Hyboria is the perfect place” But now, with those news out they’re just screwing up both the wonderfull lore of Conan and the interrest for thousands of hoping fans for the game. I mean, basicly, they take in serously good game designers nd make a wonderfully looking world. They they boost up the graphics to the point where even the most powerfull computer on the market may have problems handling. But people can live with a bit lag or not sucky graphics as long as the game appeals players with the fun new features. But now, they mess up by showing how lazy they actually are in figuring out new things to improve the MMO world, they basicly improve graphiscs and clash up a system all MMO players have been sick of for years.

Alltho, i still want to try out the game and see how far the game is corrupt, maybe, by the time i get to max lvl, Funcom get’s hit by the wise hammer in the head and launches an megapatch changing the end game system, something i really doubt. Seems like it’s going to be either Warhammer Online or some other MMO waiting to get released somewhere in the future

I wanted to say up front I enjoyed your PvP weekend videos. You guys were one of the first on the scene to get them out there(well legitimately). Anyway, on to the problem I have with your post.

Main thing I have to ask you guys, where is there a problem with this? Why do you need the most uber gear, if raids are not your thing? It isn’t like you are gonna need the extra stats since you don’t like doing the raid content, anyway. The only thing I could see from this is the armor may look cooler coming from those type encounters. How will it really effect your game play though?

Now if this effected PvP, then we would have a serious problem. Since the equipment is separate for the two, or supposedly is, then this want change that end of the game.

Pretty much this just caters to those type who do enjoy raids. Don’t let this effect you guys, because it really has no baring on what is fun to you.

If you indeed do not like raiding, then the only reason you have is the looks. I guess that is where you will have to make a decision if looks are that important to you. Personally, as long as I look semi-cool, I really don’t give a damn about having the most uber looking gear.

Anyway, you guys do your thing and let the other clowns do theirs.

I guess now I have to know, how does not having this gear really effect you guys? Ponder that for a bit and lemme know.

BTW, I’m not into raids myself… 😉

Guys, I realized something after I posted this. 😛

For some reason I have been thinking all this time that gear from PvE didn’t effect PvP. After I posted this and started thinking about it, I realized that had only been stated over in WaR.

Awww man this sucks if this is so!!!

There could be a very simple fix for this too. Just have it when you were in PvP zone that all stats from armor were removed. All PvP would be calculated off base stats. Hmm, that has a problem too though; resists. Actually this still may not be a bad idea, seems like it would be easier to balance the classes for PvP if they didn’t have to worry about differing resists.

Yea, I guess this does bother me too. What is the exact info on this? Are there caps in PvP areas or are there just to many unknowns?

I don’t know what brainchild came up with this bright idea, but hopefully it will have very low caps for all stats.

How could Funcom go botch something this obvious up?

God, errr Funcom, have mercy on us all!!! 🙁

I don’t understand why everyone says Bah i’ll go to WAR then. If you think for one minute that WAR isn’t going to have end game raiding your just dilusional.

Dude, i’ve been in the beta, and the end game system regarding getting gear and having fun at top level is totally different in WAR

@Keen

“The time to speak up and have a voice is before the game is released with the potential for these problems, not after. It’s a lot easier to speak up and have something changed while a game is in development than it is for a game to patch something out. I would rather jump to conclusions and be wrong than be quiet and be right. Wouldn’t you?”

I understand what your saying here Keen but your being premature in your statements. The system Conan is using can be the best system available for MMORPGS, its how they handle that system, its the things they have left unsaid that will make or break it.

Think about this. If WoW raids became prestigious again, tons of new content and the best gear in the game, but instead of that gear being the entire game, it didn’t have as much impact on your character as your skill talent setup. Sure Funcom has said the best gear comes from raiding, it needs to, but at the same time they also have said gear isn’t as much of an impact in Conan.

If WoW got a major graphics overhaul to be up to date that you might have to turn the graphics down on, but even turned down look better then before.

If WoW changed their combat system to be more dynamic like a n FPS demanding more of a players ability rather then auto-attacking.

Keep in mind WoW is a completely different game then when it started. And Conan is starting with all of WoW’s current glory “now” but, with better graphics, PVE/PVP character control, and trimming off the bad ideas but keeping the best ones. This is “not” a bad thing. WoW is almost perfect but misses the mark, you don’t need to re-invent the whole game genre just to try and show people what game it isn’t. The genre is an awsome one and the best games within it are the ones that take the most from the ones before it, and improve them.

WoW really didn’t come with any new ideas, a few, but it was a great game. With looking at the way they are handling PVP, it doesn’t look like Funcom is catering to easy-mode casuals. So why should we assume the same out of PVE?

The biggest thing that hurt me in WoW was the level cap increase, in a game genre that I play because of gradual building and character advancement, TBC ultimately erased all previous accomplishments before it and started WoW 2.0 that anyone starting the day it came out had pretty close to the same chance to achieve as the people playing it years before it. The all terrible “contantly better items” got the finger pointed at it when really at the end of the day itemization upgrade and new content dealing with it is the way it should be. And eventually, as with all MMORPG’s those items are going to play more and more of a role, with more and more impact on the game experience.

So if by the time, 2 years down the road my character isn’t going to smash the hell out of someone who “just” hit lvl cap, then what is the draw to play? If that mechanic didn’t exist why would we play this game for an “extended” period of time. Rather it would only last as long as your average non-persistant world game that comes out.

I have to strongly agree with WoWtoWar here, at my most hardcore I raided 11 hours a week in WoW and we were the top guild on the server. Is that really a lot to ask to have the best of the best on a server? I don’t think so. The problem with WoW wasn’t that it had a treadmill for gear, MMORPG’s are just big treadmills all the way through in almost any aspect anyway. It was that everything was too easy to get, and there is so far no indication of that in what they have said about Conan’s raiding and pvp content systems.

So I agree, now is the time to speak up, but its only the time to speak if you have something to say. You’ve made assumptions about something and its just your “best guess”. You have a lot of people reading your site, and it has impact. 90% of the responses here remind me of a friend I have who is blown with the wind on every opinion that is thrown out there and most of the time these opinions come from people who are making an estimation or guess when in actuality the people who play the game don’t feel that way.

For the people saying DAOC raids were fine, I beg to differ but the rewards were so pathetic from DAOC raiding that “nobody raided” which is why it didnt have such an impact. DAOC was a great idea that severely missed the mark in end-game PVP which was easily proven by the 3 – 4 complete PVP system remakes that happened in the games lifespan. The expansion was a complete waste of everyones time and they were never able to be more then a stop-gap filler mmo until the next best came out. People played DAOC because it was the only option for PVP, not because it was a game model others should consider using and that it offered anything new to the genre. I enjoyed my time in DAOC, but like everyone else when I hit level gap I got the best overcharged crafted gear and almost immediately became bored after a few weeks of a neverending grindy lame PVP system that had little to no recourse for death, and crappy rewards.

@ Keen

It ain’t WoW honor system version 1.0. Time ain’t of the essence. I hit rank 13 back in the day with my pvp twink. I had to play 24/7, since all pvp activity by the own faction was compared. Their was a ranking of who made the most honor points during the week. Players got rewarded ranking points according to that ‘who scored the most honor this week’ competition. Every week players lost a certain percentage of their ranking points. So the higher your ranking was, the more honor you had to score each week to progress further in ranking. Beeing a competitive system, you had to score more honor, than your competitors. This was the reason, why you had to play 24/7 for a month or two, to reach pvp-rank 13 or 14. You had to make at least top 3 honor/week over a period of three weeks to get from rank 13 to rank 14. The wow honor system 1.0 was sick! I had people falling asleep on their keyboards. That was one hell of sick laugh in teamspeak. So the AoC PvP rank system is pretty tame in comparison. As long as you keep your kill/death ration better than 3:1 you progress. Every time you get a rank-up, you rank up for good. You keep on ‘dinging’ as long as you keep winning. That’s fair game to me.

@keen:
Pre (WOW) TBC PvP kit meant something. People got alot of respect for having warlord. I have no respect for people with S1, S2 or S3. You can pay penuts for a chinese farmer to grind you your S3, then you can go play and win with your EMO kit.

TBC is a boring game and the arena system limited to a few classes.

In my opinion, anything that is even slightly more balanced will get my vote (I mean my money).

And 2v2, 3v3, come on, be serious, thats just for warriors and druids.

I created a 5v5 elemental only team and we won 75% on the first day. Don’t tell me we had skill on our side. It was my first and only day in arean. We didnt win on skill or kit, we won on imbalance.

I’m terribly bored and terribly frustrated.

All the negative things you say about AoC are to me an insignificant microscopically small fragmant of all the things that are current wrong with WOW.

I’ve ordered my copy, if I like it and its slightly better that WOW I’ll be dropping the WOW subscription.

Maybe a little competition may finally force the WOW developers to balance the game. If they don’t I really hope the entire WOW client base migrates over to AoC.

The problem here isn’t that we have differing opinions Keen. Its that your not offering any supportive ideas for your own. If raids did not have the best gear in the game, no one would do them as they are the hardest thing in the game to organize and succeed at in general.

I agree that this system has been done to death and for the most in lousy fashion at best. What I am saying is that this system isn’t bad, its a medium, how they choose to use it can be good or bad though. If you don’t like raiding as being so important then I would say Warhammer is deffinately going to be more up your ally, AoC is being marketed as the complete package without an extreme focus on either side. WoW tried to do that but when they created the major seperation between PVE and PVP they made the PVP gear too easy to obtain and it made the raiders feel like their time spent collecting gear was semi-fruitless because they wanted it to be useful against other players. This of course is getting down to player opinion and not necessarily a right or wrong, rather a gameplay choice.

What I am certain of is that funcom wants AoC to be a raiding game, and with that said raiding being the most difficult thing in general to organize because of the large groups of people involved with also keeping track of loot and so forth makes it a major burden and the rewards need to be pretty heavy to hold the interest and keep people coming back.

So as an asnwer to the WoW system where I would say in the earlier days raiding worked rather well, but eventually started to feel moot with the inherant giving away of free epics in almost every other outlet, made for a watered down system.

Conan is going to “try” to make PVP difficult, as difficult to get as the Marshal/Warlord gear but taking out the timesink factor. I never made Marshal myself, but the concept of the few people having the awesome gear was pretty cool, it made for “server” heroes of sorts. Back in the day when there were just a few running around and before cross server BG’s with the community of your server it was a much more immersive feeling where you could make a name for yourself. I suppose I as a player miss that, seeing the heroes in the game and wanting to be one, but with the loss of community and gear becoming too easy to obtain it just felt like fastfood-MMOing.

So what I am saying through all of this, and I hope you don’t think I am just trying to argue; whatever system they choose to go with, how they handle it in balance and difficulty is what is going to be the determining factor in how immersive and fun it is to play in. I just want them to do it right, if they want this or that system, i’ve probably already played it in another, and many games have made good systems look bad. IE: lineage 2 was a mock UO with 3d graphics but the game played like a bad day the office with a stack of paperwork and no end in sight.

It is only 3 weeks to release, but MMO’s start somewhere, and as long as that somewhere is polished and fun to be part of, its what they have acknowledged and accomplished at the end of the first year running that really matters. Of course this depending that their release having a good solid year of fun gameplay while all the kinks are worked out. So far though even the best MMO’s have gotten worse and worse as time went on trying to cater to everyone and pleasing no one, just creating a catchall game that did’nt really fill the need of any single style within the MMO genre.

EQ gave me a feeling of epic back in the day, and then eventually got treadmilled out and watered down, I thought I wouldnt feel that way again because well, I had played that system into the ground. But during WoW after killing nefarion and entering AQ and seeing twin emps fall for the first time, standing in front of patchwerk and so forth I felt that impressive nature again only to be watered out by cry-baby gamers who didn’t have the hubris to “compete” and wanted everything easy. If they keep this old system in Conan its a sure fire risk free way of doing it, and something we’ve all played before, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be fun if they create enough challenge and reward, and keep the market from becoming flooded by too-easy knockoff versions of the same items that are super hard to get via other means. Raiding is fun, but if “you” don’t think its fun, you shouldn’t get to excited about AoC, they never claimed to be a PVP based MMO, that’s Warhammers boast.

@Cantwait

“(I like the part asking if ANYONE likes that model, despite the millions of people who play WoW)”

And of those millions, how many have seen Illidan? 5%?

While the raiding might seem the same in AoC with 24man raids instead of 25man they are a world apart imho.

First the combat system makes playing AoC an absolute blast and the raid instances are also not as long as the wow raids. A wow raid can last 3-5 hours while one in AoC took around 1-2 hours on beta.

As for gear they are of couse important in AoC as it is in any mmog but not as important. They do not make or break a fight like they can in wow.

Thanks for a well written article Keen, you opinions on the whole raiding/hardcore pvp scene mirrors my own 😉 Sad news really that funcom went this route with PVP.

I as well will be getting this game, still have to try it out, but will be very very ready to jump back to LOTRO 😉 And this fall: War is coming 😉 Waaaaaaagh.

HARDCORE PLAYERS = most competitive players with more time invested

Rewards: Access to best gear.

CASUAL PLAYERS = less competitive players with less time invested.

Rewards: Access to gear of lesser quality.

People play MMOs for many reasons. But I am sure that many like to be competitive, otherwise their game would not be “fun”.

I am going to run topless, so I pass on the chest gear piece .

Sorry I forget to answer this

Keen said: “I am really unsure how you could ever say that I am asking for WoW… that just blows my mind and shows me that you haven’t read much at all of what I am saying. But let’s leave it at that.”

Well for a start, you want a system that doesn’t allow PVE gear to interfere with PVP, that’s WoW. You want time spent of each PVP’r to reward them with the same items the most skilled players get. That’s WoW. You want to be able to PVP without ever having to worry about raiding unless you “feel” like it…. That’s WoW. Welcome to Warcraft, why did you quit?

I was also disappointed to read

“If you want to get the best armor and weapons in Age of Conan, you’re going to have to raid”

I agree with you, I’m not looking for another raiding treadmill in a game. If it turns out that Warhammer will have more emphasis on high end PvP, I’ll gladly bail out on AoC

Not worked up, just like to debate the finer points of mmo mechanics and give my own opinions =) As you have probably found its not easy to find folks that dabble so deeply in systems with the experience of many mmo’s to be able to get a good debate going. Doesn’t seem like your to interested in debating some of my points but then I can’t blame you.

Honestly most of this comes out of my boredom between MMO’s trying to fill the hours while not playing DOTA for the 50 millionth time. And I don’t necessarily think the game you are craving is a bad game, I just have yet to see a pure PVP based system work and I am not completely convinced that it can in this genre without becoming monotonous and repetative. Planetside was the sort of game that fits more closely with a true pvp mmo that even had pseudo-rpg mechanics. I really enjoyed it for a while, but it didn’t hold my interest after a while because I am just recapturing the same stuff over and over, and even though the battlefield changes the gameplay offers very little variety.

This is all more then likely why in my last MMO experience although I did PVP in a very competative manner, I spent most of my time raiding and didn’t mind it, maybe I’m getting old, I dunno but I like the PVP progression and the struggle with a large group of people to defeat well thought out AI. Thanks Foror/Tigole.

There is no gaurentee on any system these days and in another writing you did I fell quite in line with your sentement when you said “fool me once..” you know the rest =)

I hope Conan and War are both great games, I doubt that will be the case but you never know. From what I’ve seen a system like Conan’s has been able to survive the test of time to make the company enough money to keep creating content quickly. War’s system has been tried with DaoC and ended up with a lot of redundancy, and it sadly seems they are making War more and more like DaoC so I am giving up following it until closer to release when instead of hearing some guy yell over a podcast in a foreign accent about how excited he is about a game system that may not even make it into release, I would rather just have a succinct explanation with a nice gameplay video showing me in all its glory.

Also I am much a graphics whore as you are, and the one thing that really bothers me with graphics is nice character models matched up with horrendous character animations. Good character animation ie: DaoC & WoW can carry a game for years with half assed models and textures. EQ2 and Vanguard failed miserably in this aspect and all their pretty models end up looking like a wax museum gone bad. From what I have seen of the War/AoC gameplay video’s I am much more impressed with the polished animations in AoC. I look at War so far and get that pretty model, stiff animation feel. I guess I have some pretty high standards but I last played WoW and the animations in that were fantastic.

Anyway I’ve wall-o-texted you again so I’ll just cut myself short, no hard feelings Keen I am not worked up I just prefer people validate their arguments in detail so I can learn from them, rather then giving short answers that you hear so often from fanboys who would be happy with a Gummybears MMO so long as it wasn’t too difficult for them. Now, you wouldn’t want to be mistaken for one of them now would you?! =P Here’s hoping AoC is good for all our sakes, 3.5 years is too long to wait for another flop.

Keen, I decided to stop reading your blog after your multiple errors in your premature “review” of the PvP weekend, but this article was actually served up to me as a “news” article on massively.com, which is quite sad.

This is not news. It’s not even correct. Let’s run down the points.

1) Beta testers have been saying for quite a while that gear has very little effect in PvP. This is not WoW. A person 10 levels away from you is a relatively even fight. A person 20 levels away is doable. This is currently how it is in beta. Gear has never been used as a reason for someone winning a fight, ever. So all this argument about how you’ll HAVE to raid to be competitive in PvP is basing all your assumptions on how WoW worked. This isn’t WoW.

2) You’re missing the point of the PvP xp system. The whole REASON that you lose 2-3X more PvP xp than you gain when you kill someone is that your PvP level is based on skill, not how long you’ve played. If you kill 10 people but don’t die at all because you’re badass, then you’ve got much more PvP who’s killed 10 times more people than you but dies a lot. So it becomes skill over time spent. It’s entirely in place so you CAN get a lot of PvP XP in a short amount of time if you know what you’re doing.

3) They’ve noted that PvP gear will be better for PvP than PvE raid gear. IGN’s statement of “The best gear will be from raids” is I think of their own invention. Funcom has said many times that expert crafted gear will be very competitive with Raid gear because it’s the only gear that can be slotted with gems and given those bonuses.

The summary is, for people who want to Raid and really enjoy PvE, they can get really good PvE equipment from raiding. For those who really love PvP and want every edge, they get a reward for their performance in PvP in the way of PvP items. For those who don’t want to worry about PvP levels or Raiding, there is crafted items with gemstones. For those who don’t care about any of this, equipment doesn’t matter all that much in PvP, so they can just ignore it altogether.

Really, I know you have a lack of information because the game isn’t out, but jumping on a few lines of text from a website’s preview, extrapolating all sorts of things about how it “ruins the game” is very hyperbolic forum behavior. I’m very sad that this sort of “journalism” was used for a news post on a relatively respectable site like Massively. I’m even more sad to see that 150 posts have gone by with people just jumping off the ship too thinking it’s on fire when in fact someone just burned some bacon in the kitchen.

I find it utterly amazing how many people have been convinced that the only endgame content that is possible these days is raiding. They won’t even humor the thought of other systems or ideas. Eagerly they wait to jump on the treadmill with their “friends” to earn “phat loots.”

By their own admission (see Cerwaru) if it wasn’t for loot they wouldn’t get any satisfaction. Sadly, I have to look back on days in MUDs and the early MMORPG’s to find a time when people weren’t so driven by greed. But let the masses into a genre that was about escapism from those said masses and now we see the fruit it bares.

I’m starting to think important things like lore, exploration and adventure just don’t mean much to the e-peen crowd, it’s all about the gimme gimme gimme.

Heh, reading this blog, and skimming through the last several responses, I have the exact same feelings and sentiments as you guys.

Raiding got old REEEEAL quick in WoW. I couldn’t stand the idea of grinding countless mobs and quests at the end game, and that “mechanic” just kept getting worse with the Daily Quests they implemented right around when I quit. More like “Day Job.” Most importantly, I went through 4 different Guilds that fell apart just because of Raids.

For me, PvP was the only real enjoyable end-game content, but even that required grinding Battlegrounds that you didn’t like, or competing against people that had an obvious advantage because of their end-game raiding gear.

WAR is the only game that sounds like they’re going to do it all right. You can level through PvP, the gear you get in PvP is equal to, or better than the PvE gear. The largest PvE “raids” that I’ve heard about are only 14 people. Player Quests award the best gear, and are pretty much free for all. I really can’t wait for that game… I just hope the AoC grind fest will keep my interest for the next few months till I can enjoy a game that will hopefully do it right and cater to the more Casual crowd.

First of all, the experience lost from dying is PvP level experience and you cannot de-level. This gives EVERYONE a chance at eventually reaching the top, it will just take a little longer if they don’t have the skill. Also I read in one of the recent interviews on the AoC community site that PvP levels will be more of a ‘title’. Just because your PvP level is 6 doesn’t mean you’ll lose to the guy that’s level 10, it just shows that hes been around longer and has skill.

As for raiding, there’s PvPers and there’s PvE’ers…PvP if you want to PvP because there’s specific PvP gear that’s great in PvP but not necessarily the best in PvE and vice versa.

PS:
If you want my WAR account, you can have it, not my kind of game.

Dang.

I’m probably just beating a dead horse here, but I thought I’d try and throw in some new thoughts.

For one – why so much hate against people who like to raid? Even what you dub “treadmill” raiding isn’t really what you make it out to be – an endless grind for “no reason.” There are reasons for it. People like to see content that they know only a small % of the population will see, or at least being the first to do so.

And yes, gear plays a part because the game has to be structured – you shouldn’t be able to just walk into Dungeon D and kill everything in it without doing Dungeon A,B, and C first in terms of progression… just really doesn’t make sense. And gear is the way to limit that short of level requirements or “attunement” quests.

Anyway, I just think it’s stupid that you believe PvP is superior to PvE and yet fail to accept that other people might have other opinions 😛

And yes, I understand this is “your” blog. And honestly I’m rather disappointed that you would have a blog as interesting and honestly well put together as this, and yet stay firmly rooted in your opinions and don’t even deign to reply with WHY you might feel the way you do when questioned. But as kmxs, I also have fun trying to provoke people 😉

Speaking of kmxs, this:

“Now will add to this last one and say that the handling of loot hasn’t been done all that well in the past. In that it takes a group far to long to get “everyone” the gear they need in order to move on past that content, it no longer becomes a question of skill but time. What should happen is that the faster you are able to kill a boss, the more loot it drops, ie: you shorten the time it takes to kill him by 10 or 20 seconds and groups won’t have to spend 3 months raiding the same place to clean it out.”

Was just about the best idea ever and I can’t believe it doesn’t exist yet (as far as I know). That would really make “end game raiding” so much better.

Moving on though, another thought I’d like to put to you – honestly I don’t see why people get so worked up about PvE gear working for PvP, or vice versa, AS LONG AS IT REMAINS BALANCED. I think WOW!toWAR totally hit the nail on the head here. The reason why WoW is/was failing is because of such a distinction between PvP and PvE. Either PvE gear was too good and OP in PvP, or now the case where you have to have entirely separate sets of gear to participate in either realm.

I think it’s ridiculous for a game to separate the two genres, if you are going to have them coexist, they need to be symbiotic. I don’t mind PvE gear being GOOD for PvP – and the other way around works fine too. Assuming that the same level of commitment/skill/what-have-you is required to get either piece of gear.

Tell me truly, if the most elite PvP gear was OP in PvE, would you complain? Probably not, because somehow you feel that winning against PCs makes you better than someone who organizes a grand-scale operation to win against some AI.

I really don’t see why the two realms have to be separate. If I put in 20 hours a week and team up with 20+ other players to get some gear, then it should be useful no matter what I am doing in game. Likewise, if I spend those same 20 hours PvPing my arse off, and am really good at it, then I think that gear should also be good all across the board.

I think what you are really afraid of is when PvE gear is imbalanced towards PvP – as you are comparing it to “old” or “vanilla” WoW. In old WoW (pre TBC) the raiding gear was vastly superior to anything else that existed in game. This meant that, yes, if you wanted to easily dominate PvP you had to PvE.

However, it doesn’t have to be that way at all. If the gear you obtained from PvE was equal (just slightly different in looks/whatever) to what you obtained in PvP, then what difference does it make where it came from? In the end, skill will still decide the outcome, and you can obtain the gear whichever method you feel better suits your playstyle.

Well sorry for the novel. But I think there’s a lot of poorly thought opinions in this thread concerning PvP vs PvE. I don’t think the two need to be, or should be, separated if you want to have a long-lived and very interesting and varied game.

@keen

You could at least try to look at everything from both sides of the fence but i guess your just going to continue picking out every bad thing you dont like about it and basically put people off buying the game.

I also find it a bit pointless about mentioning simple, expected glitches that you would get at the start of any new MMORPG that you know will be fixed sooner rather than later.

I must say i began to like this blog when i realised it was good insight on the game rather than a “i dont like this, that and the next thing” fest.

Though of course it is your blog.

Soooo dum I hate playing with even 5 players very often one of the 5:

is vulgar /immature

greedy / domeneering

goes afk / quits

WHY WOULD I WANT TO PLAY WITH 25 DUMBOS? The chance for a goon is 24 of 24 … soo lame… I do not want to waste time and get stressed in a social way cuz i have to cooperate with dum kidz

Doood sooo lame I hate WOW raiding the times I stayed in a raid in Kakistan just to get good loot despite IRATTAING CHAT is myriad upon legion

Lets face it most kidz who play these games are morbid and laike filthy humor … that is fine as I can screen my channels ignore… problem is when I am forced to party with brats to get the good gear

As tooo WOW welll I now have all EPICS thanks to PVP honor rewards gear good enough to raid with as a DPS warrior still I wish as the MOST BRILLIANT AND WISE SPOKEN guys who said u should have elite type rewards like titles, armor looks style/ or maybe some othe r cosmetic stuff

Also I ant never seen any better palce than Kakastan CUX I hate IDIOT GUIDLS and I like to tahnk age of conan for ensuring I never will see there ubeer raid dungeons as I hate guilds and groups

thanks dumbo coana makers barbaros bird chirping peat cutting bog trotting dung burning venison jerking monkey training orally handicapped unpolished unread helot peasant plebeian fodder … I descend to criticize you….

Yeah I too agree with the original post FORCED raids for Best Gear = disgruntled PHSCO BASEMENT DWELLING UNSOCALIZED GAME ADDICT (just a minute I have to pay the pizza girl – mom can I borrow ur purse I spent my money on Hemorrhoid Cream anon)