Have you seen this yet? Blizzard released information on their Lich King expansion detailing a “new pvp” zone.
“A cool part of Northrend is the new big PvP zone. It’s about the size of Westfall, and will be all-PvP – in no way, shape or form will we support PvE players in it.” … “It’ll be optional, but it’ll be completely non-instanced, have multiple objectives, siege weapons and destructible buildings”. – Jeff Kaplan
Do those things sound a little familiar? OH yeah, that little game being developed by the people already using this idea.
It was only a matter of time until Blizzard released information to thwart the increasing hype Warhammer Online has been receiving. While I’m sure millions (10+ Million) will buy into the idea and eat it up like murloc stew, doesn’t anyone else look at this announcement and ask where was this years ago? When the PvP system was crap where was this glorious new “cool part” of WoW? I’ll tell you where. Waiting in the shadows until it was needed.
/e puts on his fanboy robe and hat
It sounds a lot like someone is either scared or intimidated. I’m being extremely blunt here. This is Blizzard trying to appeal to their PvPers before they jump ship for WAR. The ideas are clearly being used already and WoW chose their path. Had they introduced this a year or two years ago I would have shrugged it off but not when they wait this long. World of Warcraft chose to go down the raiding PvE path and the arena based league playstyle. They defined their roll. It’s a fantastic business practice to adopt all the great things your competition thinks up but it’s an assy thing to do.
I’m curious what the crowd that usually claims everyone steals ideas from WoW is saying now. Probably in shock that WoW isn’t truly the origin of the universe.
If anything good is to come from this it will be that the WoW crowd who would have played WAR for a month and decided it was a “WoW clone” will stay playing WoW a little bit longer. This won’t hurt WAR in any way. The majority will take off the rose colored glasses in time and see what’s being done here. Blizzard is just buying time right now to put off the inevitable.
You may now flame me.
Okay then. You asked for it! 🙂
Meh. Who cares who clones whom? Game designs are usually either direct copies or close copies. There are few original ideas out there.
K&G> It’s a fantastic business practice to adopt all the great
K&G> things your competition thinks up but it’s an assy thing
K&G> to do.
So WAR is a completely original game that never copied any ideas from any of their competitors? Phoey. You’re starting to sound like a fanboy here and the game isn’t even released yet!
WAR sounds like it could be a good game and there is a good chance I’ll give it a shot when it comes out but it cheer leading a game you haven’t played yet is just silly.
To be fair I never claimed WAR was 100% unique. However, WAR is also not seeking to go after another’s idea in order to increase subscriptions. I intentionally came across strong and like a fanboy. Afterall, I put on my robe and fanboy hat. 😉
MMORPGs all share things in common with each other. That’s the natural way of things. However, blatant attempts to implement a gameplay element/mechanic currently in use or development by another company at a very conspicuous time is crap.
Blizzard is infamous for revealing big “new” and “revolutionary” plans when their competition comes on strong. This is the first time they have blatantly gone copycat.
Am I cheerleading? Yeah. But it’s not over theories or the unknown.
Hehehe Blizzard has always been famous for taking other people’s ideas, putting their spin on it and making it their own. After all, Starcraft/Warcraft was based on all the many RTS released since then and WOW was simply a clone of other MMO’s up till then but with many of Blizzard’s unique stamp and polish.
In fact more people (me included) were worried that now they are the market leaders, would they be able to innovate rather than steal and improve on other’s ideas which happens to be their strong suit.
I used to play WoW on a PvP server, which means that I could jump any Alliance any time I wanted, so long as it was in a contested zone or my green zone. Almost every zone I played in was contest beyond level 20, so it was all good, IMO.
The trouble with the PvP is that it was meaningless beyond an ego boost and eventually earning enough honour to buy some new gear (that made you better in PvP but weaker in PvE).
You could enter a BG or Arena, the entire goal of which was to decimate your enemy, but it was all instanced, and therefore unfulfilling to me because it didn’t affect anything in the real world.
This new zone is a positive step for WoW PvPers, but I just wish it wasn’t limited to a single zone. The original WC and SC games were about destroying your opponent completely, not simply crushing his mine outpost.
For these reasons, I quit WoW and highly anticipate WAR.
I recall hearing about sieging and destructible buildings in open world WoW before TBC came out, but it never happened. It is a bit assy to pull this rabbit out of their hat while WAR is gaining such momentum, but it’s very smart from a business point of view.
Blizzard’s goal is to attract and retain players and an announcement like this will aid their cause. They did copy the siege and keep idea from DAOC, but I won’t fault them for taking a good idea and running with it. After all, WoW introduced a lot of nifty ideas to the MMORPG scene that will make other games better for including them.
I do hope it shuts up all the people to say WoW-clone this and WoW-clone that, though! 🙂
I doubt it will work any better than their shitty implementation of world PvP in EPL/Silithus or TBC. I’m still holding out for WAR.
TBC was supposed to have captured objectives, town sieges, and more to revolutionize their pvp system. They slapped in arenas, added a new stat to gear, and went with a league play mentality. Hardly a revolutionized form of PvP; more of an evolved halfassery. They came out with “new” “revolutionary” ideas when Vanguard was releasing, LOTRO, etc.
I agree with you Jadawin. I doubt it will work any better than previous implementations. I’ve just had enough of the crap called ice cream tactics from Blizzard.
I see the business (gaming) market just like I see a battlefield. Lets be perfectly honest, all of these companies are trying to make a living by producing games that we’ll all throw our money into. They’re all trying to outdo the other and run them out of business. This isn’t an ancient battlefield where everyone should follow strict codes of honor when fighting it out over ideas or concepts. This is much like war and in war you do whatever you can to defeat your competition and come out on top. If that involves retooling and releasing a wonderful idea that your enemy is planning to use, then so be it. I’m not saying that the folks at Blizzard are boyscouts but I am saying that what they’re doing is intelligent and shows clear business know-how. Its a cut-throat business and we’re fooling ourselves to pretend like it isn’t.
I can understand your frustration Keen and i’m certainly not jumping on your case about any of this. The fact that they’ve just come out with an idea that is suspiciously like their competitions idea is maddening at the least but none of us can deny that given the state of their flagship game, its a good move for them.
I’m basically restating Snafza’s basic idea and also because i’m a Blizzard fanboy. No shame.
Also, I would like nothing more than to see WoW dethroned by a bigger and better game but I know Blizzard will fight tooth and nail on the way out. Even if it means adapting their game to the new popular trend.
You won’t find any argument from me there. I’ve already said it’s a smart business move in a business where any edge you can get matters. But this is also a business of image where projecting your game and your company as ready and willing to be underhanded and conniving isn’t going to win you any award.
Bottom line, for me, is that this isn’t a one time thing. This is Blizzard racketeering and throwing around their weight to make waves and maintain all control. No one is going to dethrone WoW in 2008 and if Blizzard stays true to their record, then any attempt at mimicking this form of pvp will fail.
I’ve always known WoW would fall from attrition and not from anything in particular.
Hehe, don’t forget, they DID implement capturables in TBC!
Each new zone had some dumb little building (or three) you could stand on and a timer would build up, eventually giving control to you! I can’t remember what the bonuses were, but they were so negligible that no-one gave two craps about ’em.
On my server, it wasn’t that the bonuses were so useless, but that the ridiculous imbalance between Alliance and Horde meant that the Alliance always had them 24/7.
The funny part not many people realize, is that Blizzard basically ripped off Warhammer from the get-go, starting with Warcraft, and then moving on down the line. Games Workshop created the popular miniature game (that WAR is based off of) 25 years ago, and isn’t it rather strange that many of the races in WoW look suspiciously like WAR races, right down to the artwork? With the creative pool being tapped by multiple companies, it’s bound to happen, and the features of the games will make or break them.
@gdub: Yep. That all goes back to the rumored law-suit centered around the game that GW and Blizzard were supposedly once working on together. According to rumor it somehow fell through and Blizzard went on to develop the game anyway.
On my server, it wasn’t that the bonuses were so useless, but that the ridiculous imbalance between Alliance and Horde meant that the Alliance always had them 24/7.
How will Mythic be handling population imbalances?
Will they basically only allow a somewhat even number of ‘active’ characters on both sides?
From what they’ve released so far we know that they will be limiting some of the higher end-game city sieging to a certain number of players on each side. Something like a max of 40 per side. I don’t know if that’s old news or if they’re still going with it.
I assume it’s like any MMO though and population isn’t really going to be restricted.
I plan to divide my time between the two games. I love endgame raids in WoW, and I currently log on for about 14 hours a week of raid time, but nothing else in the game interests me at all. WAR sounds really exciting though– PvP that actually matters is compelling after a year of arenas.
Snafzg these four lines you wrote are exactly how I feel about WoW’s new PvP zone
“You could enter a BG or Arena, the entire goal of which was to decimate your enemy, but it was all instanced, and therefore unfulfilling to me because it didn’t affect anything in the real world.
This new zone is a positive step for WoW PvPers, but I just wish it wasn’t limited to a single zone. The original WC and SC games were about destroying your opponent completely, not simply crushing his mine outpost.”
I remember back in the days when there wasn’t pvp arenas yet only BGs when I was talking with my guildie about it and he said one thing “I couldn’t care less that NAM team is owning everyone in WSG it’s not like it affects me in anyway.” Thats how I felt. I want PvP to affect me and the world around me in someway.
Thats why I think that ONE PvP zone in WoW doesn’t cut it. Atleas for me, I’m not going back to WoW for one PvP zone (and I won’t be pveing anymore… been there, done that for 2 years). Make PvP affect the world!
The thing that really upsets me about Blizzard and why I have no intentions of resubscribing to WOW is because up till now, they gave the pvp crowd table scraps. It wasn’t until Warhammer that they decided that pvp was worth their time. I realize that Blizzard is a company but the whole thing is too cynical for me. It’s like politicians who only find interest in the people when they are running for office or re-election.
Totally agree with you Keen.
I’ve been looking at WoW and WAR now for a while, and all I see for this expansion is Blizzard releasing “new features” whenever WAR releases a new update for their game.
Such as podcasts. WAR started podcasting to the fans. Blizzard now does that too. WAR has sieges, WoW now does too.
WAR has a two hander dps tanking class (Sword Master) Blizzard releases their Death Knight.
WAR releases their achievement rewards…Yeah, you guessed it. WoW does the same.
All it shows to a gamer like me is that WoW can’t come up with a single original idea to save their sinking ship of a game. It may seem like a smart business move, and in certain ways, maybe it is. However to some (like me) it just makes me see Blizzard as an incompetent copycat, who steals ideas and implements them in a lazy half assed manner.
Personally, I know I’ll be dumping WoW as soon as WAR comes along, pre ordered WAR, signed up for the beta. WotLK can copy as much as it wants, fact is, the original will always be better 🙂