This item will bind on pickup, is that okay? NO! How was that for a hook? The topic today is loot that binds on anything. Bind on Acquire, Bind of Equip, Bind on Pickup, Bind on whatever, it comes in many names and in many forms. Does this gameplay mechanic belong in MMORPG’s? Once again I find myself writing about a topic that many people are passionate about on both sides. I am one of those that wishes this system was never created but I know there are many who swear by it. I’d like to go over the pros and cons of this system for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
First let’s start by going over Binding loot in a PvP atmosphere such as DAOC or Warhammer, heck even WoW since so many people want to call that a PvP game. I believe strongly that when loot is made available to everyone it is much better for PvP. Allowing everyone to achieve a near equal footing allows for better competition and a mindset focused on the game (of PvP) instead of on having better equipment than your enemy. Instead of worrying about “can we match their fat loot?” you worry about numbers, strategy, and heaven forbid skill at your class. If you introduce binding loot in a PvP game then you are forcing players to PvE and that forces you (you, meaning developers) to create satisfactory PvE content in a PvE game. It forces players into choosing which they would rather do: Have fun or play a part of the game they may dislike in order to have fun. Where’s the fun in that? In the early days of WoW there was no PvP armor or PvP stats to go on and players were forced into using gear from raids in order to compete. Guilds would come in after never once playing any PvP and wipe the floor with seasoned PvP veterans simply because their axe did more damage. Unacceptable and probably the reason this system was changed.
Now let’s go into binding loot in a PvE game. This is almost an entirely different subject. There are so many more variables one must consider when weighing the pros and cons here. Loot that binds means that a player must be there when it drops. That means that in order to get gear you must play the game a certain way. To stop dancing around the subject, raiding is the key here. Raiding becomes almost forced upon players who wish to obtain good items. This can be a pro or a con depending on your point of view. I dislike forced raiding because I feel it sucks the soul out of a game when you’re forced down one path (If the game had a soul to begin with.). Now let’s flip the coin and talk about gold sellers and farmers. Binding loot would certainly destroy their business or at the very least impair it greatly. If there are no items for these companies to sell to other players then they lose a large portion of their daily gold income. They’re forced to farm for the coin and that may eventually run them down. I consider that a plus to the bind system. I’m not blind to the concept of achievement either. I see certain items as status symbols to show others you have done something worthy of having such a great item. I believe items like this should exist but they shouldn’t be absurdly better that what others can achieve.
I think it’s a difficult decision to make one way or another. As much as I dislike the binding loot system overall and wish it was never created, I can’t say that it doesn’t work. There are some games where the loot binding works and there are others where it doesn’t. I applaud the developers of PvP games who decide not to use this system. I haven’t been able to find solid information on whether or not Warhammer Online will have binding loot but I seriously hope it doesn’t. In a game that’s all about the war I do not want to worry about having suitable weapons or armor available to me. I want to get right into the battle for my realm and have fun.
What do you guys think? Are you in favor of Bind of Equip/Acquire/Pickup? Is there room for BoE but not BoP? I would be very interested to see what others come up with when discussing if this system is good or bad, and if it should be done away with all together.
One of the big things that introducing BoE and BoP items into your game does is that is DRAMATICALLY slows the flood of new goods into the economy. When you have gear that upgrades fairly often, if the old gear doesn’t bind to you it gets pushed into the economy. This drives the cost of good and commonly farmed items WAY WAY down.
While that might seem like it would be a cool thing, it actually gets old pretty quickly. When the best gear is cheap, plentiful, and easily obtained with a quick trip to the AH, it gives less incentive for you to work for those items. Leveling becomes your only goal.
That’s what it was like in the old days of EQ. Most of the items weren’t BoP (or No-Drop as it was called), and while good gear was still expensive, prices dropped sharply on older servers where all of that gear circulated and people just resold items they didn’t need to use any more.
Don’t get me wrong… it was fun to have a level 8 character running around BB with a fungal tunic and dual wielding level 60 canes. It was a lot of fun. But if killing gets old, there’s not much else to do and nothing to work towards for the next 50 levels.
Sigh… I do miss “real” twinking sometimes.
I think if you got rid of this mechanic, you would have to greatly reduce the number of these items in the game, otherwise, like Cameron said, the value of everything would be almost nothing. Either reduce the number of items that drop (though not as insane as Lineage 2) or find a way to use these items besides vendoring or disenchanting for junk. Make it worthwhile.
I think developers just need to know when to use the mechanic and when not to. There’s no reason in WoW for example for low level greens to be BOE at all. None whatsoever. But I understand rare or better items being BoE.
BoP I think could be done without, however.
Just for fun, EQ1 implemented this every possible way — very few no-drop items until Velious, then Firiona Vie where there were no no-drop items except some quest things (I can’t remember the exceptions, I didn’t play on FV). Trivial loot rules on Sullon Zek. Easy transfer of items across servers on Stormhammer.
People are so quick to dismiss EQ1, but they were wildly experimental. They didn’t know what would work so they tried everything.
On FV, gear was not an issue, but inflation was amazingly awful. But then again everyone had lots of money, since there were almost no money sinks.
On SZ, you couldn’t farm loot with high level characters (I think FV had the trivial loot code too, but I’m not sure). That made SZ another entirely different community.
EQ1 even had an automatic economy switch built in to Velious. Once the Sleeper was awoken, a lot of the really good, tradeable gear stopped dropping, and was replaced with lesser no-drop stuff (though primal and prismatic weapons were always no drop).
There’s no reason modern games couldn’t experiment in the same way. Servers are so cookie-cutter these days.
Cameron is exactly right.
Look at everquest and the economy there for a good example of the perils of not using ‘bound’ items. Old weapons and armor didn’t need to be discarded (and they didn’t get worn or busted), they could just be sold to other players or given to twinks.
This meant that not JUST good gear that gets lost in the deflation, but all gear, pushing marginal gear (crafted gear, usually, or low lvl drops) well below the level that it would be justified in paying for the inputs. Meaning that if I can’t sell a mail tunic for more than it costs to endor it (If I gain skill from making it) or vendoring the mats (If I don’t gain skill from making it), then I won’t make it. That right there killed the EQ crafting economy. On top of the fact that crafting sucked and the items weren’t remotely competitive. 🙂
In terms of your complaint that ‘bound’ loot forced people to raid for good gear, that is probably true (read: almost certainly). It is in a game company’s interest to make you raid for good gear, because raiders are less likely to drop the subscription than someone who hits the level cap and has nowhere else to go. And the items ARE status symbols. They show (esp. if they are BoP) that you have BEEN there, and that you can prove it. The loot serves dual functions (which are very close), to operate as a sign of competence and to physically (meaning in terms of stats, so not just like a “Hey you killed X Dragon Tabard”) distinguish players in order to fuel progression.
those two are linked. Often, status isn’t just afforded by raid gear. when arena S2 came out in wow, plenty of raiders made arena teams and farmed points in order to get the weapons, which were superior in many ways to the PvE gear that they already had access to. This could also serve as a status signaling device, as it showed other players that they knew which stats were important and that they had the means to actualize that knowledge.
Some great feedback here guys. Thank you!
Looking at a game purely about PvP and the war between realms, like Warhammer Online will be, where do you see the line drawn? Is it acceptable in a game all about fighting other players to have PvE gear be unbound? I’m very curious how the majority of players will receive a loot system with non-binding loot in today’s MMO market.
I like binding on pickup because it is an excellent method of crowd control, and also a way of preventing the economy from getting jacked up. Let me explain:
“Crowd Control” – If valuable items are bound on pickup, this eliminates botter and farmers being able to camp certain areas for these valuable items. Why? Because they won’t be able to do anything with them.
“Economy” – If valuable items are bound to a player, they can’t put them on “auction” at inflated prices.
The only items that should not be bound are crafted items.
Now here is a concern of mine, and an idea:
Concern – I sincerely hope EA Mythic will have a strong server presense to prevent botters from inflitrating the game. Nothing would suck worse than seeing a whole slew of botters – and these botters getting killed for cheap RvR points/exp.
Idea – Make some items “Guild Bound”. In other words, for a fee the guild can make an item usable by anyone in the guild. This will help guilds build up. Also, if a player leaves the guild with a “guild-bound” item, that item is automatically removed from his inventory and mailed to the guild leader.
Wrenn:
I’m not normally apt to say this, and I certainly don’t want to impugn you, but I don’t think the ‘guild bound’ idea is a very good one.
Right now, there is already a strong social pressure to stick with a guild that has helped you earn items in a raid or dungeon situation–items that you of course had to help earn yourself, since you were there. This leads to people sticking around in guilds longer than they might otherwise, and also can (and does) leads to guild officer/leaders forcing players to stay because “we got you X item”. To allow the same guild the ability to magic some items away from a a player (even if they were given in the first place), is a little much. In that case, it is almost like I would join a guild and rent epics as we progressed. If I felt that I had some problem with the guild, leaving would not be a good recourse because my items were only on loan.
Also, having the ability to retrieve the items removes the incentives of guilds to strongly police what is basically a guild bank. If I know I can get my epixx back from you, why bother worrying about if you are trustworthy or not. right now, guild banks can only really survive if the managers are careful not to give out equipment and gear to flaky members–kind of a credit check.
As for PvP being a different animal:
I think that the consequences of non-binding loot impact games in the same way, be they PvE or PvP. The difference between geared and non-geared players on a PvP server isn’t just visual–the geared players will often gank the non-geared players, but that isn’t really an important distinction here.
hat you are talking about in the original post is more like homologized players–the MMO version of nascar. Everyone is should get the same stats, differentiation is only on the skill of the player. This is a good goal, for some cases, but is removing binding items the best way to go about it?
your example from WoW is a great one. Before TBC (and before the PvP gear from ranking…gaaaaahhhh), the best way to PvP was to come in T2 and just mop the floor with people. But now, with the gladiator sets and the introduction of resilience, arena teams and BG’s are starting to look very similar. Most teams above a 1900 rating can be expected to have at least 2 pieces of the Gladiator/Merciless gladiator set. In this case, we have forced the PvPr’s to be homologous just by presenting them with similar best options. All the gladiator gear is BoP, all the arena points are non-transferrable.
As for binding loot forcing people to PvE. As long as PvP is not a net moneymaker, and as long as end-game PvP is still lvl 70 (I’m not counting twinks here), then people are forced to PvE in order to enjoy PvP. Not bound items would still cost money (though the price would deflate over time), and that money would have to come from somewhere.
also (although this is WAY off-topic and a big can of worms), none of these MMO’s listed are purely PvP. A pure PvP game for me is counterstrike or Quake, where (aside from latency), skill is the only real differentiation.
Well imo gear some gear should bind to your account and not to your chars, nothing more anoying than finaly getting an alt up to max lvl and then haveing to go through the tedious Gear/Rep prosess again >_
Some very well thought out and written comments.
Players want total flexibility all the time. They want items to drop to them during PvE and PvP.
I like the bound equipment concept. If you want to keep the crafters working, their gear has to remain bound to a player as well. If it isn’t, you will end up with an equipment glut where new characters will not need to purchase items from a crafter. I like equipment to have a level requirement as well. Again to keep the crafters and the economy moving along.
I always find it amazing how the Devs try to balance PvP. It is a never ending struggle. Players will adapt to game changes to take advantage of the current situation. I know players who have three accounts for one game just to take advantage of PvP changes. Each account has five or six characters at various levels per server. He could literally fight against is own characters. I get a head ache just thinking about all the passwords he has to remember. Binding equipment to a character gives the Devs one less thing to worry about while trying to balance PvP.
Hey Guys,
Can you contact me when you get a chance?
Feel free to delete this comment.
Thanks.
D
Adam,
No problem. Everyone has opinions and ideas. It’s a fact that not everyone will agree on them. Thanks for the reply! Good post!
Being able to farm a certain mob at a certain place for certain desired equipment basically nullifies any chance of a bindless loot system working. UO had a bindless system for the longest time (aside from certain special rewards which were always more decorative than functional). Then, they introduced a Diablo-type magic loot system along with certain ‘artifact’ armor and weapons with which they were also forced to introduce a way for players to bind items to themselves.
The only way a bindless loot system would work was if the game were designed in such a way that loot did not constitute 90% of a player’s power and decay or some version of item destruction existed in-game.