Remember, Beta is for Chucking

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I can’t believe I just remembered this article I wrote back in February 2008.  I’m going to quote the article in its entirety:

–Begin Quoted Article–

There have been dozens of known additions and changes to Warhammer Online over the past two months alone. Many players are concerned that the multitude of changes being made to the game in the 11th hour could possibly lead to either another delay or, in a worst case scenario, classes being left out of the game. It’s also a legitimate fear of many that their favorite class could be placed on the back burner for patching at a later date. Mark Jacobs did his best to address the growing crowd of players with this response:

“In terms of the number of classes, marketing, release, etc. It’s still pretty simple, we’ll release it when it’s ready but keep in mind that beta is for chucking what doesn’t work in order to replace it with stuff that does work. So, if a class doesn’t work out the way we hoped it would, we *might* keep it out on release if we can’t come up with a good way to fix it. It would make no sense to either release the game with a broken/bad class or to hold up the game’s release if we are not sure even how to fix a bad/broken class. One of the lessons from DAoC’s development/evolution was that less is indeed sometimes more. Again, please don’t read anything into this post other than the usual “this sort of stuff is what beta is for” disclaimer. Besides, with the new systems we have been putting in, players will have even more options to customize their class than before so I don’t think players having a dearth of class/options is something you have to worry about.”

A fairly standard and expected response. It makes sense to me that if a particular class is causing enough trouble during development that it alone would delay the release of the game then the class should be scrapped or delayed, not the game. Vanguard is the most recent example of a game that developed X number of classes but delivered Y, where Y is less than X. It’s not unheard of that something like this occurs in the development phase. I cope with the possibility of such losses by trying to stay within the frame of mind which recognizes that just because a game is in beta that doesn’t’ mean it’s finished. Nothing said during beta – and I emphasize nothing – should be thought of as a promise or be expected. I’m guilty of failing to live within my own reasoning many times.

There is nothing more frustrating than playing a class you think will be fun just to find out it’s one of the classes they intend to “fix” in the future. When has that ever ended well for anyone? It will either release feeling incomplete and lacking the “ooo ahh” of other classes or simply be underpowered. This usually leads to the standard knee-jerk patch response making the once underpowered class now a flavor of the month “broken” class because it was made too powerful. *rolls his eyes* Can you tell I’ve been on the losing end of THAT one more than a few times? I don’t like it at all. I would rather these classes be left out of the game completely. Balancing classes in a pvp game never stops. If it can’t be managed and done right then it shouldn’t be done at all.

Bottom line: As long as my orcs and goblins are all in the game and completely balanced we won’t have a problem, ‘k Mark? 😉

(Written by me on February 10, 2008 for the WARVault.  Bolds added to emphasize extreme relevance.)

–End Quoted Article–

Holy crap!  I wonder if these cuts were known to Mythic back in February. 😛

In a way, Mark covered his arse on this one by stating the obvious early on:  Beta is for chucking.   I stand by what I wrote in this article as well.   Repeat after me… Just because a game is in beta that doesn’t’ mean it’s finished. Nothing said during beta – and I emphasize nothing – should be thought of as a promise or be expected.

I found it interesting and thought some of you might.

  • It’s good to remember that the game is in beta and in a Tzeentchesque state until it is gold. I’ll leave my bitching at the table until WAR is on my computer.

  • “Nothing said during beta – and I emphasize nothing – should be thought of as a promise or be expected.”

    Now this is a line I can agree with.

    Too many people assume beta is some sort of advertisement machine, but if it is, then all I see are needless delays. It’s not, at least it shouldn’t be.

  • It’s always nice when you read something you wrote months ago and find out it comes out true, eh?

    I am reminded during this whole WAR cuts classes, OH NOES! ordeal of WoW’s projected launch content just how much came after launch.

    – Raids (Molten Core)
    – PvP Honor System
    – Hero Classes (Just now making it in)
    – Reputation Rewards

    The list is probably a lot longer, but it’s late and those are the obvious ones. Like Blizzard, Mythic is making the painful and wise choice to cut things they can’t get right. They may never make it into the game, and that will be OKAY so long as what IS in the game at launch works well, no, damn near perfect.

    I just got done playing WoW’s Human starting area for the umpteenth time with a close friend of mine. The whole time, over Skype we kept talking about just how DONE the game feels when compared to other recent offerings on the market. And that starting experience doesn’t feel done just because the game’s 4 years old. No, it was that complete at launch. And you know what? In general, WoW was pretty damn complete at launch. Rock solid even, for most people except the hardcore levelers.

    If anything, these cutbacks and announcements with 2 months to spare and plenty of hints that the NDA will drop in a few weeks’ time, leave me feeling more confident in the game Mythic’s developing. I feel like we’re nearing the point where they’re very eager to show us their hard work.

    I love Age of Conan, despite its faults, but even as a fan of the game I can say they were never very confident in it. The NDA NEVER dropped. It wasn’t until the Testlive server went live this week that you could talk about was in development because up until this week it was still called the beta server.

    It’s all very telling that Funcom was rushed into release by their publishers, and that Mythic simply is not.

    This fall, WAR should be a pretty nice game to play.

  • This is why I don’t like being a “beta tester” oh sorry I mean launch consumer. I waited awhile before picking up WoW and sure I may have missed the launch wave of people but it was a still was getting new people and it been fixed and updated. It was great. Warhammer that they are announcing now isn’t the game I want to play. If it’s not a fun game after sixth months or so down the line, it never will and I won’t have wasted my time.

    My biggest beef is that they really touted that every race could hold it’s own and talked a lot about each races battle with their main enemy. It wasn’t just about Destruction vs Order. I big part of the hype was Dwarf vs Orc, High Elves vs Dark Elves and Empire vs Chaos. Now it’s kind just Empire and Friends vs Chaos and friends. That’s not exactly the game I wanted to play. That and I really wanted to try out a n all dwarf guild. Probably can still happen but good luck being an Empire or Dark Elf guild without a tank.

  • WAR is starting to sound increasingly similar to AoC. Sounds like we’ll be paying to play a last phase beta version of the game until they can get all the content in. That’s why I quite AoC.

  • The game has always been about destruction vs order. Clearly it has never been Mythic’s intent to create four separate mini games and as far as I know they have never said that that is what they were trying to do.

  • @ Blackwings

    I can find no comparison in truth between Age of Conan and Warhammer. Just look at the descriptions.

    http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/5310527/Warhammer-Online-Age-Of-Reckoning-Collector-Edition/Product.html

    http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/3310624/Age-Of-Conan-Hyborian-Adventures/Product.html

    Warhammer currently has everything in the game that’s on it’s features list. Age of Conan STILL doesn’t have things implemented in the game that are STILL on the features list.

    The cutting of 4 cities is a good thing. The removal of 4 classes is a shame but like stated, if they’re not good enough it’s more hassle sticking them in and then fixing them at launch. Everything I’ve read so far has confirmed I’m extremly happy with the company and the game. It took a while for me to process but it gets a thumbs up from me.

  • That is very interesting. Reminds me of something in the movie The Sum Of All Fears. Morgan Freeman says something to the effect that you never surprise a senator — they don’t like to be surprised. You warn them something might happen, and then wait until later and tell them it happened.

  • He he, I guess the best cure is your own cure isn’t it Keen? 😀
    How we all don’t know ourselves don’t you think?

  • Even though my precious choppa is gone (*tear*) I will still enjoy creating our own tiny Waaagh! with you and Graev while in the shoes of a Black Orc.

  • @Keen
    It is your fault they cut the clases. You gave Mythic the idea back in Feb that it was ok to cut the classes….
    No I am just kidding! Great artical and great way to realize s%$# happens during beta.

  • If games were not hyped so bad like these days, we won’t have so many kiddies crying. Beta is not an unknown word these days. Did I missed something? Even the director of a movie cut scenes from a movie before release, so what? There are other things to do in life.

  • What the old quote from MJ shows me is that they did have some level of expectations for each class. They had their measurements in place back then, so the careers being removed at not against some “new” standard.

    “You must be at least this fun to be a class in WAR”

  • Keen wrote:
    “There is nothing more frustrating than playing a class you think will be fun just to find out it’s one of the classes they intend to “fix” in the future. When has that ever ended well for anyone? It will either release feeling incomplete and lacking the “ooo ahh” of other classes or simply be underpowered.”

    I 100% agree with the statement above. Flawed or underpowered classes create all kinds of issues.

    E.g.:
    1. Players fall in love with a class, only to discover over time or at endgame that their practical options for playstyle (PVE, PVP, whatever) are limited by the game mechanics, gear, specs, the community’s perceptions, etc. Or that compared to other classes that play similar roles, they just aren’t as strong or fun to play.

    And at that point, they can either re-roll another class (per the “Sunk Cost Theory”) and be forced to re-level/gear/grind/craft again, or stick with the class warts and all.

    Either way it’s a bad situation for the player to be in.

    2. It’s really hard for the game developer to manage expectations re: a class that the community feels needs work, esp when the game developer shares those concerns (which sounds like the case with the 4 cut classes in WAR Beta).

    Too much buffing of a class and a class creates imbalance (e.g. between tankadins/bear druids/prot warriors in WoW’s TBC). Too slow buffing of a class over time can be frustrating for the players

    I hope all 20 classes when WAR launches are fun to play and are competitive.

  • See, I predicted the future!

    Mark was actually responding to my post on Warhammer Alliance, which has been closed by WHA to prevent “I told you so!” responses.

    http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2008/02/mark-jacobs-leaves-door-open-to.html

    I didn’t really post it back then to be able to say I told you so now, but was just sharing what was obvious to me… that big stuff was getting cut from WAR. I really wanted to soften the blow for the eventual announcements, but no one bought it, still believing that Mythic was chained to delivering on every single word ever spoken about WAR.

  • Here’s a Q&A with Mythic about the recent changes. Here’s the part addressing my concern — class balance:

    “In the end, we wound up redistributing certain abilities to other Careers in order to create the balance that had originally been provided by these tanks.”

    I can’t say I like that idea. The problem is two-fold.

    First, it could disrupt the core identity of whatever class(es) those skills are added to. This isn’t necessarily the case, but if the heart of a class is melee damage, like a berserker, and you inject tank skills, then players are going to get used to thinking of that class as a tank. Maybe the class can do either now, but a single definition (damage, tank, or hybrid) is going to become the popular image of that class. If they add a real tank later, players will either not adapt or be pissed off that the class they chose and have been played with for months has been essentially redefined.

    Second, what happens if tanks are added down the line? Wouldn’t they have to remove the tank abilities from the classes they gave those skills to? Would players log in one day to find their classes gutted of certain skills? Honestly, I don’t Mythic would do something like that, but it’s the most obvious answer, right? In any case, redistributing abilities to the remaining classes makes adding any versions of those cut classes later difficult and potentially disruptive.

    I’m not doomsaying. I’m still looking forward to Warhammer, and Mythic has earned their fans’ trust. But these are serious questions that need to be answered.

  • @Aaron,

    I would rather have key abilities divided among other classes, than have a set of lackluster classes that provide an underwhelming experience.

    If they add classes back later, they will fit within the classes that we already have. The classes don’t work now with the skills given, and were cut, so it makes no sense to argue that the classes would be added later and suddenly “work”. The skills that were divided out to other classes did not work as a single class.

  • I’ve got no problem with greater variety among classes… not having an even match-up between factions. I just wouldn’t expect it. MMOs aren’t known for abandoning easy math in favor of more dynamic designs. But Mythic has taken the high road in other aspects of WAR, so maybe they’ll do it there too.

  • I know you guys hate WoW, and really are hoping that WAR is the game you really want it to be….but lets not be WAR apologists!

    While I hope that WAR is everything you want it to be – it’s reading right now like another AoC. This level of changes this late (given the existing delays) are a sign of a challenged design & development crew…

  • Chris we are not being apologetic. We believe that Mythic is doing the RIGHT thing and we have more than enough evidence to back our belief up.

    Also, these changes were decided long ago, not late in the game. Also read a bit of history on the delays and the development of WAR, before you make accusations that it is a sign of challenged design and development. WAR, if it had launched on its original date, would of been the fastest developed AAA MMO to date. WAR, if it releases this fall, will still be one of the fastest developed AAA MMO games ever to hit the market. That shows that the design and development crew are fully in control of this project.

  • “First, it could disrupt the core identity of whatever class(es) those skills are added to. This isn’t necessarily the case, but if the heart of a class is melee damage, like a berserker, and you inject tank skills, then players are going to get used to thinking of that class as a tank. Maybe the class can do either now, but a single definition (damage, tank, or hybrid) is going to become the popular image of that class. If they add a real tank later, players will either not adapt or be pissed off that the class they chose and have been played with for months has been essentially redefined.

    Second, what happens if tanks are added down the line? Wouldn’t they have to remove the tank abilities from the classes they gave those skills to? Would players log in one day to find their classes gutted of certain skills? Honestly, I don’t Mythic would do something like that, but it’s the most obvious answer, right? In any case, redistributing abilities to the remaining classes makes adding any versions of those cut classes later difficult and potentially disruptive.”

    @Aaron:

    Thanks for posting that link, and I agree it is a concern that Mythic’s approach for balancing in light of the 2 cut tank classes was to add some of those tanking abilities to other classes.

    I’m not even sure how that could work.

    It seems possible that tanking abilities were added to Warrior Priest (although I don’t like that solution). But what about the Dark Elves? Would the scantily clad Witch Elf be given tanking ability?

    When Mythic cut the 2 tanking classes, my assumption was that:
    1. the other classes wouldn’t be changed to help address the lost tank classes
    2. tanks from 2 of the other 3 allied races would need to help for the tank shortage in RVR