My Mixed ESO Emotions

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I must confess I am having mixed feelings about The Elder Scrolls Online.  I recently wrote my opinion on the 1-20 experience during beta.  I was pretty bored with most of it — lots of boring quests, being guided by the nose, etc. — but I never tried the PvP.  A while back I wrote how the PvP looked awful on paper.  One big server, campaigns, etc.

I don’t know how I feel now.  I’ve watched the PvP streams and the combat looks fun.  Siege weapons look great — those trebs and catapults are pretty cool.  I admit to wishing I was playing in the PvP right now.  Unfortunately, I am stuck without a gaming computer while our leaking roof dries.

My PvP concerns:

  • Zerg PvP is both boring and frustrating.  I see quite a bit of it going on.
  • Door Wars.  Bashing on doors all day.
  • AoE and Ranged being the only way to truly participate.

Anyone care to share a personal experience that will alleviate any of my concerns?

I like the recent announcement that the starter islands will be optional.  Then there’s this whole idea floating around out there that the PvE game opens up and becomes less themepark questing and more traditional Elder Scrolls.  Is there any truth to that?  If so, I can push past 20 levels of crap for 30 levels of fun.   My spidey-sense tells me something is amiss and that I should be cautious.

That’s where I’m at.  I’m trying to work through all of these contradicting feelings and opinions.  I’m currently hovering around the middle ground between ‘stay the heck away’ and ‘give it a shot’ … but slightly toward staying away.   Your thoughts are most definitely welcome.

  • That’s the problem I’m facing. I was bored out of my mind playing from 1-20 and stopped. Should I have pushed on? The ESO fans or the ones trying to make a name/website/living from ESO love it. I’m just a regular gamer trying to figure out if it’s worth my time and money.

    My instincts say to wait and see. I hate missing a launch, though.

  • I’ve read some previews that state once you are off the starter islands you could either follow the WoW-esque questing or play it like an Elder Scrolls game and just wander. I haven’t been in any of the betas so I cant verify that.

    I’m still debating whether I’ll get it or not. Like you I’m a sucker for an MMO launch warts and all. There is just something special about being there when all the inevitable things go wrong.

    The game looks a lot better then I thought it would but not good enough to be a definite buy plus sub. I really wish they went the B2P route.

  • I have played ESO in its beta phase (was allowed to hit level 14, so not sure where these “it opens up after 20” claims come from?). It is also hypothetically possible that I have seen/heard/played/discussed the Wildstar beta. Hypothetically. (Is their NDA still in effect?)

    With that experience behind me, both real and hypothetical, I can say that ESO is the funner of the two in my book. Wildstar is hypothetically boring. If I wanted to play WoW again, but a WoW that had me dodge constantly and telegraphed even the most boring of mobs aoe areas, I would play WoW again. That is not a fun thing. Just because someone hypothetically implemented housing does not mean it would make me enjoy literally playing WoW again, with a different name. (And of course the stupidly trendy Arcade MMO experience that is the current oohhh-ahhhh factor for people. Don’t ask me how that became popular. How is spazzing around all over the place dodging and casting while running and channeling while running etc the new happy place for devs? I digress.)

    While ESO has this newfangle stupid ArcadeMMOness going on, it also has the first person experience added to that, which actually does make the dodging/flopping around madly thing a bit more fun. The world seems huge, and the PvP seems like it could be quite fun even in a small-man setup. I enjoy the skill system quite a bit.

    So from someone who thought the idea of an MMO Skyrim as horrendous, after having played it is in fact fun. Albeit not as fun or rewarding as Skyrim can be for us explorer types, the tradeoff is playing with thine broheims. At this point I have preordered ESO. I will not preorder or ever buy Wildstar. Hypothetically.

  • *Typo, was allowed to hit level 15. It was a beta weekend though, so perhaps that is why we were capped?

  • One thing I’ve noticed many people say is “I hate zerg pvp”, but what do you expect in any kind of massive pvp experience?

    You want large scale pvp combat, it’s GOING to be zergs, people would fondly remember 8man group clashes in DAoC, while ignoring the fact many aspects of the game were absolutly broken and those 8man groups were farm groups that could take out far larger armies through CC and PBAoE abuse. Additionally they weren’t LOOKING for other 8man groups, but for solo players or large groups which they could ambush and abuse ability stacking with. In fact, most of the best “8man” groups were radar hackers specifically to avoid 8 on 8 battles.

    Logically smaller groups of less skilled, less coordinated, or simply less geared players will group up to take on stronger players or larger keeps, the incentive is there to group up. This means, conversely, overgeared players or players with significant skill can’t single handedly dominate the fight, and “op combinations” become less apparent when theres so many of EVERY class in a fight. The complaint I hear most often is “but I want my contribution to MATTER”, while ignoring the fact it DOES matter, a few players can make a big difference, even while mitigating the individual skill contribution, and allows people of less ability to participate and more importantly, contribute. The large mass of players also allowed “zerg tactics”, push, pulling offensive and defensive lines at milestone locations, as well as having “front line” people to absorb and distract attacks before retreating to be healed and allowing ranged dps to go up and attack.

    People want epic PvP experiences, yet only want small groups… theres a thing for this in wow, which they called battlegrounds.

  • Boring questing and linear experience was not the only problem for me.

    -I did not liked the characters (from artistic style, not pure graphics and polygons)
    -Character moving/idle/stealth animation was horrible. Modders in skyrim could manage to do x100 times better and some called “professional” developers did this…
    -Combat animation was bad too. The combat feels weightless, is like I am swinging my weapon to the air, I don’t feel I am hitting something. Also it wasn’t very responsive and fluid.

    I got the feeling I get for the random f2p crap…Honestly, even if I had a very small desire to play it I would give it a shot, but even if ESO was free I wouldn’t play it in that state. Their last chance is to release a modding tool and let modders fix it, as it happens for all their TES games.

  • I’m not even interested enough in ESO to sign up for the beta now they’re letting anyone in, but I do read people describing their experiences and I’ve watched some PvP footage (Werit’s, mostly). A few things come to mind.

    Firstly, on the whole “the game opens out after level/zone x/y/z. Then you can stop following the breadcrumb trail and explore” thing. That actually describes most (not all) MMOs. Unless an MMO actually gates character progression behind specific quests (the FFXIV approach) then you can go off-piste, explore and generally do whatever the heck you fancy whenever you want. That’s exactly how I played WoW when I was there, for example, and LotRO, two MMOs that are often considered to be directive. Indeed it’s how I play every MMO that doesn’t actively prohibit it.

    I think the big difference here is that for most MMOs you have an audience the larger part of which expects and even requires a very clear breadcrumb path whereas, because of its well-established, open-world, non-linear single player heritage, ESO is attracting an audience that expects to do its own thing. The issue isn’t likely to be whether you *can* strike out on your own, off the beaten path, and explore the world but whether the developers have coded in specific inducements for you to do so. Explorers will explore in any MMO but Achievers will only explore if there’s a clear benefit from dong it. If you’re an explorer at heart I’m sure ESO will open out just fine – if you’re an Achiever then you may well be right to be concerned that you’ll need to follow directive content to feel you aren’t missing out.

    Then there’s the zerging issue. I agree with Danath. You can’t have large-scale PvP without large numbers of people. If large numbers of people gather together in an MMO it gets labelled a Zerg. If you’re going to attempt to emulate medieval siege warfare, albeit it with added magic, you are going to need an army. You can’t siege a keep with eight people if the people who own the keep have eighty people they can call in to stop you.

    Except that, of course, in a video game you can – by programming in restrictions. That’s how we ended up with instances in the first place. Go down that route and we’re all back in battlegrounds again. Again the issue isn’t going to be “does everyone Zerg?” but “if I don’t join the zerg, can I have fun and be effective?, which comes down to the much same thing as exploring vs achieving – does the game feel sufficiently enjoyable and rewarding if you set your own goals or do you have to go where everyone else is going and do what everyone else is doing if you don’t want to miss out?

    A lot of this is too subjective to assess meaningfully from reading or watching other peoples’ experiences. I suspect you won’t know if you like the later levels and gameplay of ESO until you try it for yourself. Which, again, puts it in the same boat as most MMOs.

  • I’m passing on ESO for now. It can be okay fun at times, but there are just too many negatives for me to justify a $60 box + subscription. In these days of deep discounts it takes a really great game for me to commit that much money up front. I can get so many other amazing games for that price.

    Especially when you consider that in a year it will have more content, more bug fixes and almost inevitably be much cheaper to play… waiting seems like a no brainer.

  • Expectation is that opens up in the same way every other MMO opens up. I am guessing their quest spread is going to be a little bit better since the beginning is weak.

    PvP will probably be really good but miss a few essential building blocks to make it good. I have feeling these are building blocks which wont fit in the current design and will never be added.

    Then a sprinkling of Skyrim esq systems that are nifty but not meaningful.

  • I do not enjoy PVP… especially in a game with hotbars and timed attacks like this.. so I have no opinion on that issue.

    As for the open world feeling I have to say I still do not feel it. I have warmed up to the game a bit more after 3 weekends of playing but it still feels to confined to me. This weekend I have tried to just pick a direction and go and see what I find but what I keep running into are clusters of monsters/enemies that are part of a story line that is obtained or started elsewhere. For example I found a site with a bunch of old temples and catacombs that had mobs above ground guarding the entrances. I assume it was not a glitch (though I guess I could be wrong) but I could not enter the tomb doors because I had not started the quest back in the little hub area. I went back to the hub, started the story line then returned and after selecting a few runes or something in the area the doors unlocked. The runes were visually there for me before but did not have the icon to click them before. To me that feels more like a theme park mechanic. If I could just roam the island and stumble onto these things and go into the tombs and defeat this npc necromancer without first having to go into the hub it would feel more open.

    Perhaps I am just being to particular but that has always been one of the great things about ES games and games like Fallout from Bethesda. You can roam around and stumble onto something that actually makes you feel as though you are exploring the world.

    Now this could just be an isolated example and like I said I have warmed up to the game a lot over the last few sessions but it still feels a bit on rails to me. I just started messing around with the crafting system this weekend and like that. Another thing I encountered for the first time last night was I was in a dungeon of sorts and there were bookcases everywhere. Other players were running past me to get to the monsters but I decided to search each case and by doing so I seemed to be rewarded with an increase in skill to my Two Handed ability (which I had not used since 2 weeks ago) and to my provisions ability in crafting which I had never even used. That was a nice touch to have skill books (which I assume is what that was) laying around that gave that reward.

  • I don’t like any measures that directly interfere with zerg PVP. If that is how people want to play, they certainly should – I dont see it as a necessary evil that we need to get rid off. However, having said that…I like the idea of indirectly messing with it. I would think, the bigger the PVP zone, the less effective a zerg is…if the zerg can pretty quickly reach every noon and cranny then you might as well stay zerged. A large zerg on a large map can only be in one spot and the large the map is the more useless the zerg becomes.

    Additionally, if you give individual classes powerful abilities, then a well played group can actually deal with a zerg that outnumbers the group by a lot. We usually don’t see this much individual power as everything is “balanced.” It is one necessary part of promoting group play though…

    Finally, as usual, it is also about risk and reward. I don’t know what you get for your PVP efforts in ESO but if group play would be substantially more efficient than zerging then a lot of people will drift towards group play.

  • After what I would consider the worst 1-10 leveling experience of any mmo I’ve played (primarily because of how long it takes) I finally got into Cyrodiil. I’ve enjoyed it enough to go from not preordering, to likely getting the Imperial edition, because this map is huge, and you will want a horse. This is the closest thing I’ve found to DOAC. It feels very very similar to NF. There are so many places to find small fights. You can stealth in the large open areas between keeps and gank the stragglers. I’ve gotten into several small scale fights. The zerg fights have incredible performance and are fun in their own way. Unless they change things, you can continually do the quest to kill 20 players, which if you are in a raid, can take as little as 2 minutes. At level 12, I get 10% of a level from turning that in. You also get level appropriate green gear constantly in your mail from just doing rvr, so staying geared is easy.

    Very impressed with the rvr in this game.

  • “You want large scale pvp combat, it’s GOING to be zergs, people would fondly remember 8man group clashes in DAoC, while ignoring the fact many aspects of the game were absolutly broken and those 8man groups were farm groups that could take out far larger armies through CC and PBAoE abuse. Additionally they weren’t LOOKING for other 8man groups, but for solo players or large groups which they could ambush and abuse ability stacking with. In fact, most of the best “8man” groups were radar hackers specifically to avoid 8 on 8 battles.”

    I guess I do disagree with this paragraph. Calling powerful abilities “absolutely broken” is one reason why MMOs are lackluster and suck these days. Fixing these “absolutely broken” abilities means “balancing,” However, balancing in modern MMOs means neutering abilities so that everyone feels equally mediocre. In the end we simply exchange weak blows with our opposition. It would be much more exciting if everyone has access to powerful offensive and defensive abilities – in my opinion, this is proper balancing instead of the lazy approach to neuter everyone.

    With powerful abilities in place (as in DAOC) we see situations where a smaller well played group can take on a dumb large force. How is this not something that we want in our games? In a modern MMO we usually have longer TTK (time to kill) ratios because everyone is weaker anyway…that is probably across the board, I’d prefer TTK ratios being related to how well a character is played meaning that powerful abilities exists that can push the TTK ratio quite a bit down if a well played character faces a poorly played character and that TTK go up compared to modern MMOs if 2 well played or two poorly played characters/groups engage each other. If I talk about powerful abilities – I am not limiting this to offensive abilities but this would include powerful defensive abilities as well. If we dont get away from balancing everyone by denying them powerful tools, MMOs will continue to seem lackluster.

  • I have several concerns for the RvR in ESO.

    1. While the map is huge in ESO, there are actually far less important objectives (like 4 keeps for each side to be able to attack) than GW2 for people to fight for. This combined with the large amount of people that each side supposely to have (666 each side), it sounds like we are going to see some epic zerging.

    2. The mega server thing with individual campaigns. It just doesn’t sound it’s going to promote a community feeling effectively, especially since you can guest to other campaigns and the only cost to transfer campaigns seems to be alliance points.

    3. Will the map to be too big? While some distances between objective is nice, too much running with nothing to happen will get boring fast.

  • Well, it’s nice to see I am not alone. Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts/insights/experiences.

    Just to clarify a little bit on my zerging comment –

    I’m not against zerging, but if it’s the only way to participate in PvP (small areas, keep sieging being the only important part, etc) then I think that gets old.

    DAoC had tons of zerging early on. You’d have groups of 200 people moving around fighting other groups of 200 people. But the other groups — the ones with 8-16 people — could then sneak strategically. Even smaller groups, like 1-2 stealthers, could completely ruin a group’s day by sniping off stragglers, etc.

  • I can’t help but feel like this game is GW2 with a ES lore background. I’ve been playing all weekend and it is definitely not something I am going to purchase.

  • The “powerful abilities” in DAoC that people are talking about was Crowd Control. It was a real and influential part of Dark Age. The reason a group of 8 well played character could come upon a zerg of 20+ and not only do well, but potentially win, was crowd control. Coupled with the fact that casters were unable to cast if being interrupted (by anything), set in motion a dynamic that I will never tire of.

    Unfortunately the rest of the whiny world doesn’t like it when they “can’t play their character” wahhh waahhh. A zerg in a game without CC simply means the larger number of people will win, every time. A zerg in a game *with* CC will mostly still win against a smaller group, if they are paying attention. But if not, if that smaller group gets the drop on them, they have a chance to pull off the W.

    ESO will have zerg issues, sure. So does every pvp game. With the map that pvp is played on being so large, there will indeed be action for small man pvp, and with stealth there will even be action for soloers.

    The zerg can only be in one place (per faction), and heading to only one place. That gives a whole lot of wiggle room for everyone else.

  • I’m a real believer in CC. I liked DAoC Mez. I played a Midgard Healer and loved mezzing large groups while my team strategically picked off one at a time.

  • I’m quite the fan of the game. I have played beta until about lvl 10.

    I actually see it as Warhammer 2.0 in many ways.

    We were promised a different, relevant crafting system in WHO and we never really got that. TESO seems to have this. It’s at least way more fun than the one in WHO, however it seems to actually be relevant.

    We were promised great RvR and while we partially got that, it was really deeply flawed, haunted by FPS issues and silly mechanics. TESO is absolutely amazing when it comes to FPS in large crowds and its RvR game seems much better though out: actual sieging, ability to break through multiple paths (any actually, since the walls are destructible), huge maps with relevant PvE content in between, 3 faction system.

    The questing system is not on-rails either, at least not fully. Exploring the world gives you quests that are not announced before hand and that you could easily miss if you only stuck to the main road / storyline. Exploring is fun too, with the chance to find chests, lore, skyshards. It’s not Skyrim snadbox level, however it’s most definitely not WoW / WIldstar either.

    The combat might be the game’s weak point. I agree it could use some polishing, especially when it comes to animations, however I haven’t found anything game-breaking here.

    So yeah, I really enjoyed the game and can’t wait to try it our for real at launch. I think it has great promise.

  • The issue with CC in DAoC was it lasts for WAY too long, and covered a really massive radius. It was very easy to use a CC, kill a large group of people with PBAE with them unable to react, (AE Mez > AE Stun, PBAE), while everyone had to stand there for 30+ seconds, and then pick people off the remainder one by one. PBaE was also ridiculously powerful, but with long CC’s, and stacking people who could use such abilities, meant whoever got the mez off first won. I don’t have issues with CC, but it was very much an iwin button in DAoC with little chance of recovery.

    Also the “you could have a couple of stealthers picking off stragglers”, yeah you could, but they weren’t contributing to the greater battle. The stealthers who were climbing walls, killing important casters, killing resters in back… THEY were contributing. Those two guys prowling the enemies starting zone looking for levelers or stragglers or explorers to slaughter weren’t. Especially if you think 2 stealthers could keep up with speed buffed groups. 8man groups though were designed for maximizing RP, not for looking for “epic small scale battles”. The small scale groups of 8-16 could take undefended keeps, or force the enemy to run around by doing hit and run tactics, but let’s be honest, VERY few actually did such things.

    I speak from experience from running with a geared 8man group, which I left… and the leader of the group was later banned for radar hacking. Something I realized was very common in the successful groups.

  • I disagree wholeheartedly, Danath. What made CC in DAoC relevant was in fact that lengthy duration. In current Arcade-MMOs you have maybe a second or two of CC? Maybe? Is that even worth hitting the button? Why not just spaz out and dodge any direction instead? Neither choice really has meaning.

    Yes, the group that was paying attention and won at CC had a distinct advantage. How is that a bad thing? Are you against the people that are on the ball, paying attention, actually doing what they should be winning?

    CC was a major integral part of RvR in that game, certainly. But it was not the end-all either. There were plenty of options for stopping/ending/reducing the durations. SoS, Determination, Purge, Charge, MoC (from a stopping interrupt standpoint), and then even to passive things, like having a good template so that your resists against said CC are capped. Sure, these are mostly usable abilities gained from actually doing RvR. But again, isn’t that the point? Shouldn’t the people doing what they are supposed to be doing win?

    I played everything from a dedicated 8 man RvR group to a solo stealther, to a zerg surfing Healer etc. I can honestly say that most of the 8 man groups on my server were actually out to fight other groups of 8, not simply maximize RP. Did we ever fight the zerg? Certainly. Mostly because we hung around somewhere too long and ran into said zerg, or more likely because the 8v8 action was dead, and we wanted to do something. Running headlong into the zerg and then slowly kiting them to death was always a fun experience.

    Good luck doing that with today’s standard of “Crowd Control”. If 10 people fight 7 people, those 7 are going to die. All other things being equal (not afk etc). I don’t know why anyone would ever find simple power in numbers as the funnest way to pvp.

  • On more than one occasion 2-3 stealthers could really disrupt a group. Killing resters, killing stragglers, picking off healers, singling out well-known players, etc.

    I remember kiting the zerg with our group of 16. We would string them out and pick them off both in front and behind.

    I agree that numbers, when all other things are equal, determine victory in these MMOs. I think that’s unfortunate, and that’s why I tend to participate in numbers vs. numbers combat. I look for opportunities where numbers aren’t a deciding factor and I play up that angle, if any.

  • I never said that, I was fine with CC, but mez should not last the thirty+ seconds it lasted originally, which was what was breaking, if it was 10-15 seconds fine, but 30 is a LONG time to get wailed on with the power of insta death PBAE spam, and for some reason I remember purge not being that great, I don’t remember why though. Something that if you got out of mez, there was another form of CC that could be slapped on you, I THINK.

    I did solo armsman, 8-16man arms and of course zerging, but my experience with 8mans is while yes, there were great fights, they were designed to ambush and demolish larger groups through PBAE abuse more than any kind of balanced setup, with high damage melees picking off important targets that dont get mezzed/stunned or needed to die first.

    At the time I was playing I don’t remember there being alot of ways to resist CC, was that a frontiers thing? Or do you just meant something to buy with realm ranks? It’s been a long time.

    Yeah, but I consider those helping the main zerg, more often I saw stealthers prowling certain areas killing people on quests or attempting to level than trying to chase after zergs.

  • There is TONS of CC in today’s “arcade-MMOs”. I am back in WoW doing arena and BGs and no, it does not just last 1-2 seconds, some stuns last 6 seconds and I think fears can last 10 seconds, which also more often than not has you running away from where you need to be. Between stuns, fears, roots, mez, etc. It is easy to be CC’ed out of the entire fight for significant amounts of time. Blizzard has indicated that they intend to rectify this w/ the next expansion. Using CC intelligently, especially in arena, is the only way to win the fight against similarly or better-geared opponents and I am fine with this, I just think it needs to be toned down a bit or a little better balance with some comps. Granted, it’s not DAoC-style BGs, but its the best PvP out there right now in my opinion.

  • @Danath Mesmerization breaks upon any damage taken, also when some debuffs are applied. Mezz is like being asleep, anything that happens will wake you up. Stun lasted, at a maximum, 9 or 11 seconds I believe? And that was only with the melee versions, think the casted stuns were much shorter. Root was the longest duration hard CC in DAoC, would stop you from running (nothing else) for a minute or more. Again, any damage broke it.

    Besides stun, the other forms of CC aren’t really “abusable” as far as laying damage on someone while they can do nothing. It was simply a way to stop 30 people, so that you could deal with the rest in a timely fashion.

    @Balthazar I haven’t played WoW in multiple consecutive years, and probably never will again. I do however remember the forms of CC they had initially. And then they nerfed them, and then they added diminshing returns. To the point that, to me at least, it was atrocious. My warlock went from being able to Fear someone as a viable means to take them out of a fight, to them being able to trinket that first fear and then laugh at the duration of any I applied after that.

    But like I said, I haven’t played in forever. Maybe it got better? It sounded like you said they were nerfing it again though.

  • I was in the beta for TESO with 3 friends.

    The first friend to get in got bored and gave up on it before we joined him.
    Both of us gave it a good go and it was growing on us during the first Beta.

    Then the Beta this past weekend hit:
    My other friend found it constantly locked up in conversations which was a game-breaking bug for him and he just decided he had better things to do with is time.
    I just got plain bored with it.

    In the end all of 3 of us are saying “No thanks” to TESO.

  • I ended up taking the plunge. I like what I’m seeing in the streams I’ve watched. I’ll get more out of it then I did FFIV anyway.

  • Interesting that you thought the questing was still on rails after about lvl 6-7. Certainly you CAN just go from one breadcrumb to another and finish each hub, but I also found you CAN pick a direction and find stuff to do as well. Will some stuff be closed off to you until you have the right quest? Sure, just like in Skyrim some areas were locked until you had a quest key. I don’t see the major difference, and don’t have the expectation that I should be able to do anything at any time. What game actually works like that?

    Only got to PvP for a short while, but I can see that a lot of the core problems a game like WAR or GW2 had, ESO has figured out. If you want to zerg PvP you can follow the crowd, or if you have a smaller group you can roam around to the smaller objectives. I think the guild capture limit will also go a long way here, as the major guilds will claim the big stuff and smaller guilds will claim the rest.

    The depth of builds as they relate to PvP is also overwhelming right now, and that’s just at the lower levels. I can see a lot of very specialized builds being viable at 50+.

  • “you CAN pick a direction and find stuff to do as well. ”

    As you can do in any MMO out there. The point is that the efficient way of progressing is linear. Is not like skyrim that the core design is to explore and pick directions. I can wear light armor to my rogue in wow, with intellect and spirit, does this mean that the game offer a Deep character system where you can chose what to wear and what stat to focus on? No, you wear leather and you pick agility.

    If you want to explore for the shake of it, do it. That does not mean the game core experience/design is not linear.

  • I honestly only got to 6 before deciding this would be a purchase…that’s all I need from beta.

    I was going to wait on ESO 6 months but after doing my taxes looks like I can preorder.

    There aren’t many mmorpg’s in development and that’s a big motivation for me. I want to support the genre and how many more AAA launches will I get to enjoy?

  • “The issue with CC in DAoC was it lasts for WAY too long, and covered a really massive radius. It was very easy to use a CC, kill a large group of people with PBAE with them unable to react, (AE Mez > AE Stun, PBAE), while everyone had to stand there for 30+ seconds, and then pick people off the remainder one by one. PBaE was also ridiculously powerful, but with long CC’s, and stacking people who could use such abilities, meant whoever got the mez off first won. I don’t have issues with CC, but it was very much an iwin button in DAoC with little chance of recovery.”

    Bullshit. Just don’t run around in a blob and you can’t get mezzed, stunned and bombed. Just that you can stick to your group leader and alt-tab to youporn while running around doesn’t mean you should. Last time i died to that was in 2005 or so. And I played DAoC on and off all the time. Mezzes also can get cured.

    Long CC in DAoC is only a problem for terrible players.

  • First few levels of ESO seemed fine to me, but I didn’t think there was any way I would be buying until I tried the PvP. Now I just might. The purchase and sub cost isn’t the least bit of an issue for me as it is a lot cheaper than dual DAoC accounts ever were, but the cost of time could be tough.

    ESO PvP seemed to be saturated with a DAoC RvR feel, which is great because my first and only true MMO love was DAoC. I had to quit DAoC about 9 years ago to handle real life demands, and have since dabbled in numerous MMOs (EQ2, WoW, Warhammer, ToR, GW, GW2, Rift, you name it) but no other has grabbed me. If I hadn’t been forced to quit I might just still be playing DAoC, but have not been able to bring myself to go back since it is so old and I know would be a serious commitment.

    Most of what I was able to do in Cyrodiil this past weekend was zerg, but my impression is that there will be a lot of freedom to PvP the way you want thanks to scale of the map. I think the key to DAoC for me was the freedom and variety afforded by the open ended RvR end game. I suspect that if I were to try ESO and find a guild similar to what I had in DAoC, I might just end up hopelessly hooked on an MMO once again. And now I can’t stop reminiscing about the hole left in my heart by DAoC especially with the 8 man talk in other posts here…

    Started my first two characters – a champ and a bard – before Shrouded Isles came out. Leveled them side by side, alt tab mostly, in a kind of abject poverty that only early DAoC players could fully understand (mismatched bits of wrong armor type greens and greys in the 40s anyone?). Then I joined a solid little 8-10 player hib/crossover mid 8v8 guild. Quickly got over the sting of my early poverty by growing filthy rich and self-power-leveling a large variety of classes to 50.

    Yeah I was an 8er, but no hater. I really don’t understand the common resentment against 8 mans, which mostly just did 8v8 and only occasionally tried with great amusement and enthusiasm but varying levels of success to stomp zergs. If you succeed in stomping a zerg with a single group, then I think you and the zerg both deserve the outcome. If you fail then you still might knock out satisfying enough number of players but in any case know you deserve the wipe you earned by trying and failing.

  • Arrrrgh I wish i could have tried the PvP. This weekend was botched for me but I plan to, hopefully, get a chance to try the PvP before the game launches.

  • You really should try and get some RvR in if they have another beta weekend Keen. I had no intentions of playing this game prior to this last beta weekend. Heck, the beta weekend before this last one, I didn’t even log in, that is how much I hated the early pve stuff. This last weekend though, I told myself I was going to force my way through to level 10 so I could try it out. Now I’ll be getting the Imperial Edition. It is just eerie how close this is to DAOC. I’ve been seeing the same sentinment with a lot of ex or current daoc players. If you get the chance to try it out, make sure to explore, and get a feel for how big the map is. Try out running with the zerg to experience the large keep fights, but also try to find those areas between enemy keeps where you get traffic and the opportunity to gank, and get smaller fights after the zerg has gone by. If you are able to, you can even get a small group with all the classes, and have a stealth group that isn’t just rogues. So many possibilities.

    Also, while the fact is that you choose your campaign and it isn’t permanent like DAOC, the campaigns do last 3 months, which I like a lot more than the 2 weeks guild wars does. If you happen to be in a matchup that sucks, you aren’t stuck for 3 months though. You can guest to other servers, or you can pay with alliance points to switch your home campaign. Also, as rivalries between guilds build, I could see guilds continuously staying with the same campaign every 3 months, so in that sense, you could always see a lot of the same enemy guilds if you wanted to.

  • i assume there is no battleground type PVP in ESO ? 4×4 or 8×8 ? only single large scale PVP ?

    if thats true i think they are missing something … not everyone would want to PVP in large scale area with long time commitment.. some enjoy short sharp combat like in arena/bg..

    and the combat floatiness.. wish you can describe it better in a video or something like that… if ESO’s 1st person combat match Skyrim’s then i think its good .. but if its not then ah well..