GW2 just took the top spot on my list of must-have-games.Â Reason: ArenaNet has, on paper, come the closest to replicating DAOC.Â World vs. World vs. World has just been detailed by Mike Ferguson, and everything he has to say makes me giddy.
Those familiar with DAOC will already have memories of how most of this works.Â For those who missed the DAOC experience, I hope that GW2 finally brings you up to speed with the best way to do PvP in a MMORPG.
I really like the idea of server vs. server now.Â In DAOC, each of the three factions grew very close because you were an entire team against two other teams.Â You were fighting for meaningful objectives, for reputation, for honor, and glory.Â In GW2, you’re fighting for all of those and for the ability to move up in what sounds like a ladder system.Â Every two weeks your server is evaluated based on how you did and then given a new server to fight against.Â I like the sound of creating healthy competition between servers; maybe that’s what’s needed to create the infamous “realm pride” in today’s market.
I’m in love with the idea of lower players joining the fight and continuing to progress while playing.Â Giving everyone the opportunity to play removes segmentation and contribute to the server’s victory that week.Â I hope that ArenaNet improves their bolstering system over that of WAR and SWTOR, but even if they don’t I can’t imagine why having more bodies would be a bad thing in this type of PvP (whereas in 8v8 having lowbies sucks).
Just a few great notes:
- Four “absolutely gigantic” zones, one for each realm as a “border land” and one in the middle. (DAOC style)
- Keeps with relics (DAOC style)
- Upgrading Keeps (DAOC style)
- Taking resource camps to earn supply to use on siege/upgrades (cool system)
- Siege weapons
- Mercenary Camps
- Bolstered players continue to level and gear up in PvP
- Guilds can hold locations and attach bonuses to them (like stats), but holding them helps the entire server not just that guild
A PvP system like this emphasizes the whole realm and removes the focus off of the individual and even off of the guild.Â Guilds still benefit the server through their organization, but I can be in a guild of 5 friends and jump into WvWvW to contribute 100% as much as the next person.Â Since the maps are “absolutely gigantic”, players can spread out and stratigize movement, smaller groups can avoid zergs, and a real battlefield experience can be had.
ArenaNet is giving me everything I want in PvP.Â I don’t even care about their PvE game anymore.Â I haven’t even read up on any sort of PvP progression (is there one?).Â With no subscription fee, playing GW2 has become a no-brainer.Â With this type of PvP and no subscription fee… it almost feels wrong.
I need a minute….
….[sniffle]… I’m too emotional to comment!
Sounds like Arenanet has hit a homerun with their WvWvW. Would be cool to see some old DAOC guilds reform. Even the damn dirty Mids.
The devil is in the details though. This looks great so far – no doubt but it doesn”t take much to ruin a potentially great set up. I am wondering what kind of death penalties there are…if you die…are you taking out of the fight for a while (see DAOC) or is it insta spawn right around the corner (WOW)? This can have a huge impact.
Also, I didnt read much about rewards. Loot is nice but what long term reason is there for people to fight. Is it a gear grind eventually? Will you get extra PVP skills like in DAOC – which motivate people to keep going? If so what is the ceiling to max Rrank…if you make the last rank (if there is one) attainable within a reasonable period of time then it becomes a grind….you keep it out of reach as in DAOC then it becomes a long term goal and people may not grind towards it but go at their own pace.
Even the amount of X (anything) you get for killing a player (e.g. solo) may be important – will it be a large group frag fest or is it viable to do small group hunting?
This can go wrong on so many levels…and usually one would think that common sense would not let it go that far but I think we know by now that common sense is a rare commodity!!!
Anyway, Go GW2!!!!
@Argorius you are correct about that. That said, I am buying this game even if they do it completely wrong, solely for the fact they are trying something different.
I am wondering how well crafting will tie in with WvW.
Again, microtransactions and the proposed console port have moved GW2 officially onto my “Danger Will Robinson” list of games I’m being cautious about.
Our community needs to get better at managing our expectations anyway 🙂
This is also something of a lot of contention. But one thing a shadowbane developer said they wish they implemented was round system that rebooted every 6 months or so. Everyone loves the initial rush buts hates it when the game stagnates later on.
@Howdy Doody: hehe yes me too…considering all the stuff that I bought that didnt even sound promising to begin with…I might as well pick it up. The guys seem to have a sound core strategy – too many MMOs as of late didnt even have that!
@Argorious: Indeed. On paper we have a solid system here. I’m assuming there will be some sort of progression system for the individual. Even DAOC had realm ranks. They could mess it up in the details for sure.
@Wufiavelli: DAOC managed to keep the PvP going for all the years I played. If done right, it’s self-sustaining.
@Jim: The console thing won’t happen. They’ve even said that right now there are no official plans.
I haven’t heard about microtransactions. Is it like WoW’s where you buy a sparkly pony that serves as nothing but a different look to mounts already available in-game? I haven’t heard anything about it, but I’m interested in learning more.
I don’t even have a problem with microtransactions if the game is good. If the cost is around $15 a month that is…hahahah. But that goes back to the old debate of Time vs. Money. We don’t need to beat that dead sparkle pony again.
…Or is it a sparkle dragon now? Those are BIG mounts!
I think that is one of the perks of 3 factions playing. The general theory probably goes more for Guild FFA rather then for faction vs faction. Basically it has to do with one alliance getting too big and controlling everything. Eve would contradict this however.
I’m pretty sure I’ll leave this area only when kicked out in order for the match-ups to change.
I agree with Argorius that the devil is in the details… but if you have a strong base from which to evolve, any problems that appear can easily be tweaked along the way. And from what we’ve been shown so far, GW2 will have a very solid RvR foundation.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store store will prob look like this.
Arenanet has said their GW2 cash shop will be very similar in scope to their GW1 cash shop, which currently sells cosmetic costumes (not stat armor or armor upgrades), inventory slots (account-wide), character slots, name, appearance, and gender changes, npc mercenaries (based off of your own existing alts, so they are only as powerful as you yourself can make the character), Ranger pet packs (not including rare animals, IIRC), pvp skill sets (in GW1 you can create a pvp-only character), and bonus missions (which are only soloable and while they reward you with weapons, as per usual the weapons are not more powerful than can be acquired elsewhere). I may have missed a few items off the top of my head.
We don’t have a list of what items will in fact be sold in the GW2 cash shop, but the precedent would seem to indicate that there are plenty of opportunities for revenue even outside of sparkle ponies.
Ahh hell yea, I just came over to post the link and you beat me to it Keen. Glad you’re coming around. 🙂
I love everything they discussed in that blog.
I have one worry however, the “supply” economy. From what they said, supply is used for every type of building/upgrade in the Mists, which is a plus. But they also said supply is gained from camps in the Mists that are basically npc camps. This means supply is an ever-flowing font, that heads to the keeps/towers, what have you.
The problem I have with that is that this doesn’t actually affect the game’s economy in a good way, or at all really. They mentioned you would have a gold cost associated with building something out of supply… but it will most likely be negligible compared to the supply resource cost per object/upgrade.
If they somehow tied supply into player-crafting, they would single-handedly solve the problem while creating a thriving economy for the entire game… supply would be in constant demand, and also constantly be used in the pvp effort for every server.
Without supply tied into player-crafted items, the crafting side of the game will fall flat really quickly.
@Keen and @Jim: Microtransactions are just like WoW, there is nothing Pay to Win like in any of the Asian FTP games. It’s just like in WoW you can get sparkle ponies and the like, nothing gamechanging.
Sorry to double post, but I had a possible solution… supply caravans enter a keep, and EXCHANGE their supply stock for EQUAL AMOUNT of PLAYER CRAFTED item that players need to bring to the keep (most likely fall under the purview of the Guild in control of said structure).
Granted, this is just a quick and dirty solution, but something along those lines, perhaps more eloquent, would be a good thing. Create a totally thriving economy in the game.
Also, I am going to take this moment to formally coin the phrase Wx3 or 3W for WvWvW cause its just so much easier, I’d use W to the third power, but it doesn’t actually add up mathematically, and also my netbook keyboard won’t accept alt+0179 😛
So thoughts on the solution/problem?
I’ve never seen mention of a PvP progression system. Judging from GW1 there will likely be a purely cosmetic title track. Skills are acquired by gaining unlock points via leveling and can be unlocked in any order, so WvW-only skills are unlikely.
I’d expect special armor skins will be available at WvW karma vendors. But since all max-level armor has roughly the same stats, these will just be cosmetic options.
I think the emphasis here is just play-for-fun: Fighting for the pride of your realm and guild (and to get those realm-wide buffs), and to gain the currencies used to progress your character (gold, karma, experience). Trying to understand GW2’s incentive system through the lens of other MMOs is just distracting IMO.
Understand that part of their choice in making a game without a subscription is that they don’t feel the need to keep you impulsively playing multiple hours a day every day – thus no raiding, no gear treadmill. They don’t need the same repetitive reward structures other games use to support that volume of play. At least that’s how I understand it in principle. In GW1 they added such grinds later for a certain kind of player, though…
EDIT: @ Rawblin’s concerns:
I think your ideas are great, but they don’t seem to be what ANet is trying to achieve with this system. As I understand it, the supply mechanics allows for strategic plays in WvW, such as cutting off supply from a keep (and thus preventing defenders from building siege devices or endlessly repairing walls), and requiring flowing supply lines to maintain a siege and build offensive siege engines. I think the system seems like it will work great in this respect.
I think it would be amazing if players could be directly involved through crafting, as you imagine. But it seems to be a very different mechanism in ANet’s mind. Unfortunately crafting in GW2 looks to be in the standard WoW/themepark vein. It’s just never struck me as an area they have any passion or great ideas, and it’s sort of there because they feel like it needs to be. I plan to ignore it, myself.
Yes I really like the philosophy of game design in general, and PvP specifically. I especially like that in tournament and hot-joinable instanced PvP matches everyone is in similar gear, so item benefits do not outweigh skill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS5MJ2UGN_4&feature=player_embedded), and that there are cross profession combinations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3AnKGEVoak&feature=related).
So far, with limited research my list of potential problems is only 2 long:
1) If it WvWvW works, the 2 week period is a great idea. I worry about what might happen if one side pulls ahead too quickly early on though; waiting half a month for a reset might dampen open world interest in the interim. Hopefully with 3 servers contributing this will not be a common problem. I would prefer the idea of making it a weekly event, but in either case I will be in the trenches for the duration.
2) The crafting looks cool, especially the potential random aspects, but I don’t like the ability to learn all crafts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnWz3fSnOdU&feature=relmfu). I feel this devalues the economic impact of crafting. I felt that this was a failing of Fallen Earth.
Whereas with SWTOR there really was only one class that I was in interested in playing prior to launch, I am stoked that there are at least 4 in GW2 that I want to roll (Mesmer, Necromancer, Elementalist, and Engineer). Whoo hoo!
@Zederok: You realize that if GW2 fails we are all blaming you for our disappointment! 😉
Well put Brise Bonbons.
Basically if your primary concern is the lack of gear and/or pvp xp rewards in WvW then I honestly don’t think GW2 is the game for you. Personally I play PvP because I find it challenging and fun, I actually loathe the idea of having to PvP for gear to gain an edge in said PvP, so I really hope they keep that to a minimum in GW2.
GW1 had a good share of grinds, grinds that I’ve personally gone through, but the equipment I got had the exact same stats that my old gear had, I went through the grind because I wanted that particular set, only because of how it looks. This kind of “optional” grind is fine by me, as I’m not actually increasing my characters power at all.
I think GW2 will have a bigger emphasis on gear than GW1 had judging by previous developer blog posts, but I hope they keep it far away from the scale that we see in WoW.
I’m a fan of cosmetic rewards, for sure. Hopefully ArenaNet doesn’t pollute GW2 with any sort of grind for power.
Gear-based token economies in PvP shift the focus from playing for fun to the amount of honor points earned per hour. I will be glad if I never hear another person say in chat “A quick loss earns more honor than a long victory!!!”
Hear hear! Amen to that! 😀
@Gankatron Oh Hell, I second that!
Bloody Hell!, If they manag to implement this and make it feel anything like DAoC RvR, I will quit every game I have ever played to play this! 🙂
I have missed DAoC RvR for years and every new game that comes out is just a big dissapointment because noone seems to be willing to do it again. <3 ArenaNet!
I hope I didn’t come across as too caustic in my previous posts – looking back I can see how my tone might be misconstrued. I was just trying to point out it could be misleading to imagine the GW2 system using other recent MMOs as a model. But who knows, really…
I’m beginning to dimly recall them speaking of a PvP currency, but I want to say it was in the context of structured PvP and automated tournaments. Sort of like qualifying points in Guildwars, in that you’d accrue them temporarily in order to gain access to monthly tourneys.
I think outside competitive PvP the emphasis is on flexibility – for example, allowing people to drop in and out of structured PvP matches, or to set up named “servers” or lobbies with stable communities. They must know that if they include an honor-like grind, it would be very easy to abuse given such tools.
Either way, given the fixed two-week duration of WvW matches, and the fact that it will always be best to have as high a score as possible, I think they’ve avoided the most obvious pitfalls (“just let them win so we get another match ASAP”). Unless we see players arguing that their server should just give up so it gets a worse rating – and is matched against weaker competition in the next round. Which isn’t hard to imagine, gamers being gamers and all.
For this to work requires a playerbase that wants to make it work. Problem is, the majority of the playerbase will be of the path of least resistance for gear crowd that doesnt want what the DAOC crowd wants. The canvas is there, but the players are the ones that have to paint the picture. I think GW2 will be the game to prove that no matter how well designed an open world pvp system is, the mmo playerbase no longer has.the ability or the desire to make it work.
@Idunaz: As it was discussed earlier, what would be the rewards for PvPing that they would choose a path of least resistance towards?
Will there be some sort of gear grind? I haven’t heard of one, yet.
Will there be PvP skills earned through gaining PvP ranks?
I have the same questions, and I agree that players will take the path of least resistance — IF one is provided. It doesn’t appear to me that one is being provided.
@Id: I relish the idea of a game that doesn’t appeal to everyone (read: “casuals”). Give me a single server full of people who PvP bcause they love to PvP for PvP’s sake and I’ll likely stay with it for a long time (no need for Battle Master rewards).
I think millions upon millions of players playing games like Modern Warfare 1,2 and 3, Battlefield 3, TF2, Counterstrike etc etc are a pretty good proof that there ARE players out there that enjoy PvP for the sake of PvP instead of improving character stats. (Yes I’m aware of the unlocks in said games, but these games have been and in some cases are still being played even without these unlocks)
Judging the every gamer on the planet based upon the actions and statements of the vocal minority of only WoW players is just wrong. Some of these WoW players (like me) are actually longing for a new game that dares deviate from that gear grind mentality. I play WoW despite it’s gear grind, not because of it.
Sounds good, let’s see how it is when it is actually live.
If there are no rewards, I cant imagine the vast majority of mmo players even bothering to do it. Gear has been nearly the only motivational tool/goal for mmo players for the past 9 years. If players don’t have something.that they can get to make their character better they wont do it. If they implement some type of skill advancement via pvp like daoc, players will find the easiest way to get the points to do that, and it more than likely wont encourage open rvr like DAOC did. I think that for.this to work you are asking the mmo playerbase to forget the past 9 years of mmo’s and the manner in which the genre has progressed. I can’t see that happening.
@Proximo The MW analogy is great one because it shows that folks would rather start over with inferior weapons, for only a better title and bragging rights.
It wouldn’t take much to get the same ideals in an MMO. Heck even if you had a visible timer to show how long someone owned a keep would be enough bragging rights to start a war with.
WAR was soooo close. They had the Guild flags on keeps (perfect), but they still made it to profitable to trade keeps in order to get gear.
Just make the Keeps be a source of pride, and battles will happen on their own. There is only so much smack that can be talked before everyone wants to punch you in the mouth!
I’d think of it in opposite terms personally. This is the chance for a company to introduce people to a different way for MMOs to be, since the vast majority of those players started in those last 9 years 😉
@Howdy Doody: Agreed, fully. 🙂
@Idunaz: I disagree, fully! 😛
What other MMOs the past 9 years have you been playing that works like you are explaining? The only ones I can think of have ALL come AFTER WoW, trying to capitalize on WoWs success by copying/loaning/stealing/whatever ideas from them, one of them being the “carrot on a stick model” that a gear grind is.
I’ve been playing GW, and I still am, right now actually, and I’ve no need to grind for gear, my newly started Ranger ain’t half way through the storylines yet, he’s at levelcap and has the best gear the game has to offer, will I stop playing? No, because the game is FUN and CHALLENGING, that there is more than enough to keep me in a game for a good good while.
Also, I’ll finish with a quote by Rubi Bayer from Guildcast;
“I like to think of GW2 like it’s all carrot and no stick” 🙂
Its been a long, long time but I’m still proud of Hibernia Percival. I’ll definitely be checking out GW2.
“Iâ€™m in love with the idea of lower players joining the fight and continuing to progress while playing. Giving everyone the opportunity to play removes segmentation and contribute to the serverâ€™s victory that week.”
I think this is the key to getting servers to really draw together as a community and fight for pride alone. And I am not worried about the bolstering – from what I have read even in TOR, w/o all the abilities and gear that higher levels have, bolstered toons still have a fun time in PvP. And to be honest, if you have put the time into leveling and gaining gear, you should be able to have that advantage in RvR.
Can’t wait for the 20th to hear about the blogging community’s experiences in the beta!
speaking as an unabashed AKES although the gameplay is very, VERY crucial, I’ll need some kind of reward for my time invested. Loot, arrpees, something. . .
So while I’m excited at the idea, the jump right in thing has me worried, what’s the incentive for getting 80?
Lol. Well better late than never 🙂
Welcome to the party Keen 😉 Glad you’ve finally come around to GW2.
Now, fingers crossed the game will actually live up to it’s promises.
My only real concern is that they’ll end up being *too* popular. I’m getting images of launch day and crashing servers, due to them underestimating just how damn popular they’re going to be.
I sure hope the respawn locations are not close to the battles, you really know you have won a fight when the 100 enemies are now over 15 minutes away. With the discussion of the size of the zones and how the rez mechanics work in Guild Wars 2 it seems like it would be hard to make this mistake.
@Brakus: I too hope this is true. My hopes is that when you die in the mists you get transported back to the entry area point like in DAoC and your can only renenter every 15 mins or so so like how DAoC did it. It offered the best PvP death penalty because Time is always paramount.
I jsut dont see ANet glossing over something this huge with all the strides they are making to ensure WvW is fundamentaly fair and balanced.
As far I know, the only “incentive” for reaching max level is that playing the game is fun. You play because it’s fun, and as a byproduct you’ll eventually reach the level cap. I could be wrong, but so far I don’t know of any content that isn’t accessible in some way before the level cap. Which I think is great, actually.
Sorry for the double post, but to elaborate: it seems like Arenanet is trying to make each activity of the game desirable because it is inherently fun and rewarding. You don’t need external meta rewards when you’re actually just having fun doing what you’re doing, which I think is a much better way to design games.
Anyway, the WvW stuff looks amazing. I’ve been excited for dynamic events but now I’m not sure if I’ll ever leave this pvp area.
I’m concerned about respawn as well. Odd that they didn’t mention it *at all* in the blog post.
Firstly, given the downed mechanic, it will be a very different beast, since players will probably be rallying a lot due to he nature of mass combat. On the other hand, walking into the smoking ruins of a fortress to find the defenders scattered on the ground wounded and dying will be a… Unique experience. :O
But two other major selling points of GW2 are 1: removing “unfun” death penalties, and 2: removing boring travel. The rest of the GW2 world will be covered in waypoints that allow instant travel, and I have trouble imagining that these two facets of the design philosophy are going straight out the window in WvW.
Perhaps they’ll make the right choices about death, DP, and travel in WvW – but frankly I’m afraid this will be the weakest aspect of the design. And unfortunately it’s such a key part, that if they get it wrong the whole house might come down around them – as we’ve seen so many times, just one imbalanced system or incentive can easily destroy the whole experience once the players figure it out…
looks like DOMINUS is going to do it even better, be sure to check it out!
Must Breathe Slowly.Take Deep Breaths.
Ok Ok the game sounds incredible !!!!!!!!!!
(as a long term DAOC vet I just cannot wait)
I will definitely be trying GW2 out, and I’m excited that a big-name, high-hype game is trying out a three-faction approach to PvP, but the system still isn’t quite there for me at all. Most of what I’ve loved about factional open PvP in past MMOs in persistence. That is, I get to know people that I play with, and people that I play against. With a rotating server system, I won’t have rivals that I can play against for years and years.
Also, and this may seem like nit-picking, but it’s actually a big deal to me, but the enemy players we’re fighting are enemies arbitrarily. They’re just copies of people on my server who come from a world exactly like my world and we’re fighting because… I don’t know why. Honestly, a sense of enmity is what made games like Dark Age of Camelot so fun. You went out and fought Albs because they were different, and they were BAD GUYS. It was hammered into you that you were from Midgard. You had different races, different classes, different armor and weapons, different architecture and music than the other guys, and you were enemies. Important stuff.
I need a tissue after reading that.
I don’t need any PVP rewards beyond the PvP itself, titles and a number of points that go up is a nice to have.
To the idea of supply, I really like this idea. Those sieging the keep can starve the defenders out, which means that being passive for too long on the defense can also result in a loss?
To involve player crafters, maybe allow crafters, or only high level crafters or the amount based on skill to craft supply at either the Realm gates (for lack of the GW2 term) or at the supply camps themselves, and then try and bust through the siege line to deliver the supply. If you die on the way in, you drop your supply, lootable by your team or the enemy.
I also agree about the concept of respawn, and would like to see the classic realm-gate concept reactivated. It can be defender by the attackers while they hit somewhere else, and the defenders should respawn there in order to regroup to attack again. But there needs to be multiple realm gates, with a travel time between them.
@Jostle thats actually a VERY good point… You knew the names of your enemy. You knew their playstyle, armor colors. You knew who was honorable, who was a sneaky bastard, and who was likely to bring the zerg over the mountain behind them.
Every realm had its gank guilds, its charismatic leaders, for both PvE and PvP, and you knew who yours were, and your enemies leaders. And then you socialized on the VNboards, and hated each other. and made alliances against the stronger realm… and then that collapsed because some guild didn’t follow the rules, or it worked and the all the relics were captured… but then you break the alliance and mug the albs carrying the relic off….
I guess the question is, how many servers will there be? Will there be a small enough pool that given time we’ll know all the servers, and the players on them? Knowing your enemy was almost as important to DAoC as knowing your realm…
I only just read this and it blew my mind… I cannot wait for this game!
The gear for rewards model was a whole dopamine reward system, but people are responding to it less nowadays, part of why theres so much loot inflation in wow, because people just dont RESPOND to green or blue items anymore, so they have to drop more epics, more frequently. The gear grind never ever did it for me personally, even back in DAoC, after I got my quested level 50 armor, I never wore another set, I COLLECTED sets of armor sure, but my pve/pvp set was my quested class set. WoW I hated gear grinds, and it led me to quit the game several times due to the boredom of it all. In WoW and other MMOs like Vind, SWTOR, etc, I specifically wore shittier gear than I should have for my level purely because of aesthetics, in wow TBC, I wore matching gear, even if I sacrificed stats, in SWToR, I didn’t wear heavy armor on my jedi knight until level 39, specifically to avoid the “hood” problem, and in Vind, I didn’t wear Laghodessa and other armor sets and instead gimped it with other armors I preffered the aesthetics of.
I don’t speak for everyone, but “more stats gear” has never been a drive for me, and I’m sure it’s not a drive for others. Wow just has failed to provide rewards OTHER that stat based gear such as cosmetics, outfits, fun consumables, trophies, etc, and has instead taken the opposite tack of nerfing everything fun into mediocrity.
Goodbye classic engineering, stacking growth/shrink potions, riding other players, blowing up gold sellers in town, kiting bosses across the land, and AV’s where players actually killed each other.
I agree that the server rotation has a definitive downside in that you don’t get to know your enemy and thus server pride takes a blow. On the other hand it might boost server pride for those who actually care due to the ranking system. If ArenaNet allows us players to see these rankings on a public leaderboard you can bet there will be fierce competition amongst guilds and servers to prove to the world that they are the top Guild/ server on their region. If this information its disclosed however, it will just be genetic enemy number x.
Related to this topic I wonder how server transfers and such will affect said server pride. ArenaNet has previously stated that they want to have systems in place to make sure that you can play with your friends even if you initially started on different servers, of server transfers us their solution will that lead to players transferring to the to servers?
Agreed, a ranking system where you can view top players, top guilds, top alliances and top servers would be really important. (The Camelot Herald was really good for this in DAoC).
I was perfectly happy in DAoC to farm cash for my level 50 PVP gear, and do the odd Raid in the hope of an awesome drop (and then refarming cash for my pvp suit 🙁 ), but other than the 1 suit, there was no gear grind. And cash farming is easy, as mobs are consistent. You can just watch a movie and farm cash and PL a friend’s alt while you’re at it…
I don’t think the server rotation will be as bad as you think after a couple of months.
The servers should mostly sort themselves out around thier server wide ability. The best PvP servers will probably be regularly matched up against one another as they always beat the second tier servers to stay near the top.
The weakest servers will also stay near the bottom to regularly face one another.
If anything, this system solves one of DAoC’s biggest problems in RvR, and that was realm imbalance. Within a few rounds, servers will be matched up pretty well based on thier abilities, so most matchups should be pretty even every 2 weeks. And not only that, but if your server population changes, or you lose a bigtime PvP guild, or something like that, your servers rank will shift, adjusting your new competitive level to match with other servers.
I think the metagame design here is freaking brilliant.
Sounds like fun, but the only way I’ll play is if they let you max out a PvP character like they did in GW1. I have less than zero desire to level another MMO character ever again.
Is it bad that I WANT to be addicted to this game?
I rounded up the number for all of the currently available for purchase gift shop items listed here:
The amount for everything including the expansions purchased separately rather than the trilogy discount totaled roughly $332.
Now lets round up further due to what can be assumed as a timeline discount due to the age of Guild Wars 1. So lets say the lifetime total is $400. Now lets assume you didn’t start playing the game until 2007 (several months after the second expansion factions came out) and continued to play until today. Your total spent would be less than $10 a month for a subscription game and again that is for ALL of the micro transactions purchased. It, of course, would have been even cheaper if you had been playing since the start…
My point is, if GW2 does not go over board on the micro transaction shop and make too many must haves like inventory and character slots, then this will most likely end up as one of the cheapest MMO’s you will ever play.
As a side note, I would love to see Realm Ranks also added. Then I won’t need to wish to be addicted. Addicted will become my name! 😀
Can not wait for release.
In other words: Shut up and take my money!!
This game CAN’T come soon enough. I’m going to end up playing a bunch of crappier games in between now and the launch of GW2 just to bide my time, but I wish I had it on my dinner plate to consume NAOW 😛
If you have nothing better to do why don’t you go play Gw1 and unlock yourself some goodies for Gw2?
Check out http://hom.guildwars2.com for the stuff you can unlock. 🙂
@Proximo and Gali: I understand some of your apprehensions but In DAoC one did not know who their enemies were. Anytime I moused over an Enemy all I would see is Elf or Dwarf in Red Letters and there was no cross faction communications, so in theiry you really didnt know who your enemy was unless they ran in a 8 man gank group with their guild colors.
Sorry, but many people were INSTANTLY recognizable without seeing a name, people on other realms knew me by appearance alone, and I recognized many others due to distinctive guild emblems, dye combinations and armor/race looks. Sure not EVERYONE was recognizable, but big players could eventually be noticed by sight and rank alone (their overhead name was based on RvR level). One Luri and I would always run into each other, and wave, but we never killed each other, we just knew who we were and had fought plenty of times and went on our ways.
I hope nobody takes offense but I always have a hard time understanding the “I PvP 4 fun” crowd. I can see this if you engage in PvP only once in a while but once you make it your main focus, for me, there has to be a point of me doing it. Even if you PvP 4 Fun, it surely would get lame if the same person were to respawn every minute and you would repeat the battle – eventually you realize, there is no point to this.
Just as the PvE game depends on rewards, so does the PvP game. You can get away with few or no rewards for a while because it is more exciting but that just goes so far. People generally do not engage in activities, just for the hell of it (some do though, no doubt).
If I think about what motivated people in DAOC (and maybe why it worked), I see this (not in order of importance)
1. Realm Ranks (cosmetic title – long term achievement)
2. Abilities that went with Realm Ranks (strong reward – long term achievement)
3. Notoriety (people could become “famous” via leadership, kill spam, or even rankings on the website)
4. Realm Pride – fostered by actual community feeling (no instances, inconvenient gameplay, alliance system (?), unique realms (?), this one is a difficult one to pin down
5. Presence of a very long term achievement system (see 1 and 2…if it isnt long term…then it is grindable…and then it sucks)
6. Absence of an easy alternative to open PVP (battlegrounds etc.)
7. A good balance of risk v. reward (solo killing an opponent could get you 1000+ RPs which is a really good chunk – it felt worthwhile)
8. Major Large Scale objectives (Relic Raids which at least had some sort of real reward or punishment)
9. Absence of grinding (no gear grind (the complaints about ML ranks showed that gear grinds were not appreciated), it is difficult to “grind” Realm Rank because it is unpredictable PVP and the end goal is so far away that it is not really something one owuld grind – instead you play at your own pace. AC did this as well…an extreme high level cap that was unattainable but where it didnt matter that much if you were level 70 or 105…)
10. Stiff death penalty (being killed could take you out of the battle for quite some time)
I think that related items 1, 2, and 5 are extremely important. Often you run into the argument that if you implement it this way then players that have played longer, will always have an advantage…yes…that is true…and that is sort of why some people would want to play longer. I have a hard time believing that a game with serious PVP focus could be successful if it doesnt have a long term achievment system with worthwhile rewards (where the rewards cannot be a gear grind…see 9)
I like the concept so far, but a few things bug me
1.) The relic system or orbs of power they discussed. From the description, it sounds as if your realm captures these from a PVE mob in your border lands and you only have a few minutes to put it into a keep to secure it. From the wording they put it only sounds like a PvE objective. I know the devil is in the details, but I really hope it’s something we can steal from the enemy also. Relic raids in DAOC were absolutely epic.
2.) How they handle death. A arbitrary death system (IE you die and respawn in the keep in a few seconds) would make battles seem more like a numbers game than skill. But battle where you die and getting back to the fight is arduous or impossible would encourage people to sit and throw stones. (Keep raids were especially boring for my infil in pvp. I *COULD* climb that wall and try to gank someone, but more likely than not I’d die and have a 30 minute trip back. So I’ll just camp bridges out of their spawn instead 🙁 )
3.) Along the same lines as 2. I’ve generally hated mass scale pvp as a melee. First they tend to be massive lag fests(this frightens me because of GW’s graphics.) If you’re ranged you can get by just dropping AOEs in the crowd of still motion characters, but as melee it really sucks. Not to mention even if everything is running smooth, getting into the enemy line and actually doing anything of merit is a null factor. You’re dead within moments when everyone hones in on your group and then your targets are healed to full. I’ve had some pretty bad experiences with World PVP in a LOT of games. I like how they are alleviating the zerg vs. zerg mentality by encouraging people to break off. But I’m sure keep battles are going to be just that. I really hope there’s something in the design to allow people who are the “in you face punching you” types can feel useful in large scale combat. I certainly feel like dead weight compared to tanks, heals, and ranged dps in every other game.
“I can see this if you engage in PvP only once in a while but once you make it your main focus, for me, there has to be a point of me doing it.”
This seems like a very odd statement indeed. I think that overt token economies are overlaid upon many repetitive and poorly designed games as a substitute for exciting content. PvE actually seems far more in need of such token rewards as the encounters are often very predictable; terms such as â€œfarm modeâ€ status in raids bear this out.
PvP encounters have far more randomness and potentially challenging outcomes than NPC-based ones, the latter which often have to resort to altered rule-sets (dev hacking in essence) to level the playing field to make up for the lack of adequate AI.
You provide a very bland example of a PvP encounter. I think it can be cool to see the same players repeatedly in different tactical situations while the theme music from â€œThe Good, the Bad, and the Uglyâ€ plays in my head (perhaps not literally, but to the same effect).
Your statement could be generalized to any activity. I could say that I donâ€™t understand why people would want to surf if there werenâ€™t medals, money, and fame (which in turn could be converted into babe equivalents) as rewards, and that it must get boring to ride one wave, only to immediately paddle out and catch another similar one. Why do people find PvPâ€™ing for PvPâ€™s sake fun? Because they find it to be fun; no more investigation is necessary.
I think Keen’s 2012 prediction about GW2 is right.. This is not going to be a game from everyone. Things that I have read thus far about the game make me think that it’s:
1) Not going to be for the uber-hardcore players. Sure you may find something interesting to keep you going for a bit in the game but I’m guessing that you’ll get bored fairly easy in this game.
2) The “carrot on a stick” model used in other MMO isn’t really going to be in place here. It’s not going to be an gear grind for better gear I think it’s going to be more towards “cosmetic” gear that works more towards you being an individual.
We’ll see though with the 20th looming close..
“I really hope thereâ€™s something in the design to allow people who are the â€œin you face punching youâ€ types can feel useful in large scale combat.”
First of all any PvP game should have impact collision to fully take advantage of combined arms tactics, otherwise tanky types are emasculated.
GW2 dos have mechanisms in place to replace class competition with class complementation; the use of â€œCross Profession Combinationsâ€: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3AnKGEVoak
@Argorius: while I agree that most of those points on your list adds depth to pvp, and would welcome some in my game of choice, I actually need none of them to play pvp for years.
For instance, I played Soldier of Fortune 2 multiplayer for more than 2 years, 2-3 hours almost every day. In case you don’t know already that game has no unlocks, no ladder, no rewards, no nothing that the game gives you in return for your time invested, but you got one thing, one simple but very important thing; player skill progression.
I played it partially because it was a very fun fps, partially because of the social aspect and partially because even if I felt that I got better at the game there was always someone better than me, always something to learn and something to reach for.
Hard to believe? Take a glance at the games list over at xfire.com and tell me if you find one out more games like this among the top 20 most played games last week, I found at least 3.
I think that someone who is coming from a raid/gear-grind endgame environment might not understand the appeal of RvR. The motivation and appeal of an RvR endgame isn’t all just about stats and gear. Because the community becomes so much more close-knit, a lot of what is going on in the endgame is not done in a bubble. You start having a reputation and a place in that community, things that happen on the battlefield and the way you and your team conduct themselves matter. There is a lot of fame and infamy and stories of bravery and cowardice going on and that’s all part of the endgame.
“Your statement could be generalized to any activity. I could say that I donâ€™t understand why people would want to surf if there werenâ€™t medals, money, and fame (which in turn could be converted into babe equivalents) as rewards, and that it must get boring to ride one wave, only to immediately paddle out and catch another similar one. Why do people find PvPâ€™ing for PvPâ€™s sake fun? Because they find it to be fun; no more investigation is necessary.”
Point taken – I just dont get excited enough about killing someone in PVP. It can be exciting – no doubt. However, it loses its charm if I do it 4-7 days per week for 2-3 years (a timeframe being realistic for a really good PVP MMO). There needs to be more for me…and if there is…it is awesome. Like I said – I dont understand what is fun about PvPing for the sake of PvP if you intend to do it long term. Maybe it is an e-peen thing? Damnit, I hope I am not e-testosterone deficient!
But seriously, imagine PVPing with no long term reward for 1-2 years in the same game…would it seriously still be fun to you?
@Proximo: Yes, I believe it…but is this maybe the difference between an RPG point of view and a FPS point of view? I find FPS multiplayer also pretty boring after a while. I did enjoy Team Fortress for instance but after 1-3 months…I dont see why I need to keep playing…I got the point of it hehe
To me MMORPGS – as are most RPGs – are about character development so if that aspect is missing, I sort of lose interest.
@Keen: In regards to something you said earlier about a console version. As of the latest conference call a console version is confirmed to be in development, though they doubt it will be released at the same time as the pc version.
Yes it’s a different mentality coming from FPS gamers compared to RPG gamers for sure. On the other hand I’m one of those gamers who don’t fancy gear stats and distributing attribute points at all. I like how WoW is approaching talents in MoP for instance, it gives me a choice on HOW I want to play my character, not how powerful he will be (the geargrind will still be there though).
As for PvP not being interesting after a couple of months without rewards, it’s about the mentality. I don’t go into PvP to “kill other players”, I go in to Win, if it’s winning the entire game or winning a 1v1 situation doesn’t matter, it’s about being last man standing, coming out on top, and mostly about feeling like I can improve.
If I get killed in PvP by a player who is clearly more skilled than me, I don’t mind it at all, it just urges me to try harder. If I get killed by someone because he outgears me to a point where he just oneshots me, I get furious. Though winning a battle where I’m outgeared is even more fun, have to admit that. 😛
@Mork: In a response to that conference call, ArenaNet said that there are no confirmed plans. They are simply exploring the possibility. Unless they responded to their response, it’s not a for sure thing.
Can’t find a source atm, but I’ve read somewhere that ArenaNet (not NCSoft) has confirmed that they HAVE a small team working on checking the possibilities for a console port. That doesn’t mean there will ever be one, but they ARE considering it afaik.
Here’s a post from 2 years ago;
Quote: “Hey, all. We saw this come up on the investor call, and wanted to respond.
I just want to reiterate that the development team is fully focused on making GW2 the best PC MMO ever released. We have a very small team exploring the possibility of console, but there are no definite plans for a console version at this time. The core of Guild Wars 2 development is fully focused on delivering a fantastic PC MMORPG experience.”
So as far as definitive plans goes, you are right, at least you where in 2010 😛
Still, they haven’t dismissed this yet.
Though it might be that they’re just putting up a show for the investors, who have been critical towards NCSofts inability to hit the console market for a good while.
“I donâ€™t think the server rotation will be as bad as you think after a couple of months.
The servers should mostly sort themselves out around thier server wide ability. The best PvP servers will probably be regularly matched up against one another as they always beat the second tier servers to stay near the top.”
Actually, now that you mention it, I think that the server rotation will be worse than I originally thought. I’ve learned that, as a general rule of thumb, if players are rewarded for doing something, they will do whatever they can for the reward. I look forward to seeing how ArenaNet react to players mass-transfering to the “top” open PvP server. Unless, of course, all the instanced PvP makes the open PvP just sort of an extra. Hopefully, we won’t see this type of behavior.
In any case, it’s not the same. I’m still just fighting an incidental enemy. Server pride is great, but what makes your server different or otherwise identifiable among the dozens? As I said above, I’m excited for this system, I just urge people to not get their hopes up too high if they’re trying to recreate past experience from, oh… say, Dark Age of Camelot, because there are a few (essential, in my opinion) elements missing.
@Keen: Read their response again. Martin said nothing about exploring the possibility. He said they have a small team developing a console version. More importantly listen to the audio clips from the conference. A woman answering says they have a console version in development, but again, they doubt it will be ready to release along with the pc one.
The most attractive reward isn’t gear – it’s status and it applies equally to PvE and PvP. Titles, medals, fame, cosmetics… will be the reward system (after level cap). The effectiveness of status rewards is surely something ANet won’t suddenly forget in the transition from GW1 to Gw2:- People (hopefully) aren’t spending hundreds of hours filling up their hall of monuments in order to get better stats on gear in GW2…
Most MMOâ€™s that I have played I focus on PvP, even the supposedly story rich MMORPG SWTOR. Rather than complimenting game play, I have found gear rewards a distraction; in the worst case scenario it has totally destroyed the enjoyment of the experience, such as when WoW introduced the honor system.
I remember years ago in WoW when AVâ€™s that took hours to finish (I think my longest one was 6 hours), with the tide of battle shifting back and forth, and epic events spawned by player actions such as harvesting resources and channeling spells to summon elite mob; without exception these were the best experiences in any MMO that I have experienced, PvP or PvE.
Once the honor system was introduced people started to play to gather gear reward equivalents and focused on the most efficient way to achieve this even if it meant losing rapidly. AFKâ€™ing was rampant. Recognize that there is no point to AFK if there arenâ€™t any rewards; the people there are playing because it is fun.
I feel badly for anyone who wasnâ€™t able to experience a large and involved battlefield such as AV was early on. I wouldnâ€™t have been surprised if after the introduction of honor rewards that some new players were unaware that you could even summon elite NPCâ€™s, as no one was doing it; it became a rush to the pinch points, such as the bridge, to get over as rapidly as possible and kill the boss, or in lieu of that, to just give up, take the honor, and move on to the next queue.
Unlike some PvPâ€™ers, I like PUGâ€™s, as long as we are not matched against a pre-made. I have run in para-military pre-mades, and after a while they are boring. You are dealt a stacked hand that will win against a PUG, and farming of single players at spawn points requires no skill. On the other hand in a PUG, random stuff is going to happen, and you need to adapt; self-reliance and knowledge of the versatility of your class is critical. When people act as a team, it is pleasantly surprising.
Maybe in this way, the reasons of why I like to PvP become evident: the adrenaline and the sense of personal satisfaction that comes from making a large difference in an unpredictable situation requiring skill, situational awareness, and adaptability. The only time that I feel that in a raid is usually when I am new to an encounter, and rarely in a PUG. After that it is less about enjoyment and more about the satisfaction derived from completion and dkp for improving stats through gear rewards.
Perhaps another analogy is the difference between an amateur photographer and a wedding photographer; the latter could contend that there is no point to pick up a camera if they are rewarded to do so. In gaming terms I contend that if a person needs a token economy to make a game worthwhile to play, then perhaps the game isnâ€™t intrinsically worthwhile to play.
I think game play is broken if the main reason that someone logs in multiple nights a week is in hope that they will have the dkp to get a specific piece of gear when it drops in a raid, as opposed to because it is fun. This is why I left WoW in the end; I actually wanted the raid to get over with as quickly as possible so I could see if I would get the drop I wanted. Of course what is the worst case scenario here? It is when you finally get the drop and now you just go along to tomorrowâ€™s raid repetitively doing the same mind numbing key strokes to help your guildies gear up. It no longer is about having fun, it is about responsibility to the company, like working for a company; it is a job. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04
For any game to remain interesting it needs new content, so yes I can PvP in a game over the course of years if every once in a while new elements are introduced, but this is also applies to PvE. I think that it actually applies to a greater degree to PvE due to the predictability of NPCâ€™s and their limited AI. In PvP if you see an actual player on the battle field it is an evolving interaction of trying to gain tactical superiority. In PvE there will be an entire field of enemy, obsessively pacing back and forth, completely ignoring you even though you are clearly in visual range; you line up, a little more forward, a little to though right, ok I am ready, wait I think Iâ€™ll get a beer, ok back now, and pull!
Certainly PvP is a different experience from PvE. I think the sandbox model best fits my desire for a PvP environment. Some people are confused by the concept of such games and ask â€œSo how do you win?â€ For me it is more a question of how much fun I had while I played regardless of endpoint.
Test yourself to see what kind of player mentality you have by answering this question; would you play ping pong (or your sport of choice) if no on kept score? 🙂
strike out “like working for a company”
“though” > “the”
“if no one kept score”
Sorry, the lack of an edit function crits my OCD mind…
@Mork: A important fact to keep in mind about that conference call is that there’s not a single employee from ArenaNet present, it’s all investors and NCSoft.
@Gankatron: Good read, we think very much alike. 🙂
@gankatron – Golf is a fun game to play… maybe I’ll practice over the weekend – I want to lower my handicap.
RE: The handicap of being a melee in mass fights. Remember that every profession has at least one ranged weapon, even warriors, thieves, and guardians. So while you’re a face-punching plate wearer 95% of the time, when it comes time to man the walls you can pull out a bow, rifle, or staff and be just as effective at range as most caster builds.
I am sad that collision detection is out in GW2, but there are lots of new tools that can be used to control and limit enemy movement. I think there’s a good balance in this area, and I’d rather it play smoothly without CD than be another Warhammer Online.
RE: Console Version. I can’t blame them for developing/exploring the idea. More to the point, I don’t care. GW2 is already a very streamlined – even simplified(!) – experience compared to the first game. This was never aimed at “hardcores”, and I don’t think the core design is threatened by the specter of “consolization”. Honestly I doubt the console version will get past the prototype stage, just due to cost, controller issues, and general lack of interest. But if we do, hell, why not, as long as it was developed for PC first (and it clearly was).
I do agree with the notion that GW2 is not going to appeal to everyone. Some hardcore players will fault the “newb-friendly” mechanics – read teamquitter.com for examples of this. Some WoW/Rift/EQ players will get turned off by the lack of something they recognize as an endgame. I think GW2 will draw a lot of people who currently float between F2P games, from LotRO and DDO to LoL and TF2. The GW2 playerbase will never be as big as LoL due to the hurdle of actually needing to buy the box, but I think their success otherwise will look very similar – a casual (in both time and skill), low barrier-of-entry playerbase large enough to support continued development and a modestly successful(if not respected) competitive scene.
Anyway, that’s what I see in my puddle of scrying tears, wept over many years in anticipation of this game… 🙂
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Console version is aimed at the next Gen of consoles… which will be much more powerful and PC-like than the current versions.
I don’t think you will see real collision detection in a game again for a while… it was one of the reasons Combat in Warhammer was so terrible.
“Some hardcore players will fault the â€œnewb-friendlyâ€ mechanics”
I just read the articles and I am not sure what specifically you are referring to by this statement. They seem to say that certain aspects are simplified relative to GW1, but others (like the control set up) sounds far more complex, overly so by their assessment. It is very likely that I am missing something, but many aspects seem innovative.
They said last summer that GW2 is already fully compatible with a standard console controller.
Don’t get too “hyped”, guys. You are all veterans and know what nice promises from the developers often mean in the MMORPG industry.
Oh, and the console controller part scares the hell out of me. Talk about dumbing down.
Grrr no edit button 🙁
What scares me in the console version is two things:
1) Dumbing down of the game for the consoles. Out of curiosity, how are console players going to use chat? Not all consoles have an optional keyboard… and not all players have a keyboard… and also a mouse (for mail, inventory, etc…). Anyway, the game will have to be dumbed down, and this will negatively affect PC players.
2) The average “x-box live” gamer… you think the WoW population is bad and immature? Wait until your favorite MMORPG is invaded by “x-box live” style kiddies. That community will be catastrophic.
I hope that PC servers and Console servers will be separated, for the good of the community, and that the PC version and Console version will be different so the PC version can have all the complex features all MMORPGs have.
People should not be worried about graphical lag. Its the GW1 engine just improved. Gw1 is one of the few MMOs which runs on a netbook without a problem. Also if you look at the graphics of GW2 they are not machine killing. They do a lot more with art then they do with tech.
tweet from one of the guys at MMORPG.com
[Bill] Going to bed now. Can’t give details of my day. But I can say that you should really believe the hype. @GuildWars2
@Jostle: I dont understand this reasoning, esp coming from DAoC when there was zero cross faction communication (chat reads mutters something unintelligable) and the fact that the only thing you see is a Red letters depicting soemthing like: Elf Eldritch. In DaoC you had almsot no way to distinguish the oppoin faction other then they were red. And as the old saying goes “if its red, its dead”.
This kind of makes me sad thinking of what Warhammer should of been. Using this as a PvP setup Warhammer would have been easier to design and the content would of been a lot better quality because they would not have to fill 6 different leveling tracks, only 3. We would get 3 kickass quality cities instead of 2 and the side balance issue would of never happened.
It kinda scares me as well but.. TERA has a setup where you can use a controller for the game including the arrow typically used by the mouse. Don’t get me wrong though I found it very painful to use and went right back to using the mouse/keyboard even though the controller was a shade better for combat.
I thought about the controller in GW2 but I think I will go with keyboard/gamepad (Logitect G13 or my Steelseries Merc Stealth). To best have full functionality.
Warhammer could have been very good with 3 factions, but for many the low frame rates in the open world PvP fights was a major factor in leaving.
“I just read the articles and I am not sure what specifically you are referring to by this statement. They seem to say that certain aspects are simplified relative to GW1, but others (like the control set up) sounds far more complex, overly so by their assessment. It is very likely that I am missing something, but many aspects seem innovative.”
There are a lot of good innovations – don’t get me wrong, I personally like where GW2 sits between accessibility and depth (as a pretty casual player). But I think there are some valid critiques. Most worrying to me is the removal of GW1’s energy resource management, the plethora of simple “click button to make damage” skills, an extremely basic attribute system, and the stripped-down ruleset at the heart of structured PvP.
I’m not personally worried about the complexity of the keyboard controls; I played a Shaman in WoW, which required using something like 3 dozen keybinds while maintaining constant movement…
The simplicity of other systems, I like: The UI is clean and smart; the switch to preset weapon-specific skills is a smart solution to the balance nightmare they had in GW1. Overall I’m happy with most of their design choices, but I do find myself wishing GW2 followed LOL’s skillshot-heavy design direction. I think it would be a much more appealing route to go for “hardcores” and players like myself who are casual in some ways, but enjoy developing player skill more than developing character stats.
I hope that clears up what I was saying earlier! 🙂
Thanks for the clarification!
Did you really never have any rivals in DAoC, friendly or otherwise? There were tons of ways to develop a good, memorable relationship with enemy players. Sure, it didn’t tell you their names when you targeted them, but if you hit them or they hit you, it would say their names. Also, there were guild emblems, and sometimes just seeing an emblem gave you a good idea of what you were getting into. Also, many players made themselves stand out with certain dye schemes on their armor. Lastly, there was plenty of cross-faction communication on the forums.
Honestly, if you didn’t know anyone from the opposite faction in Dark Age of Camelot, I think you missed out on a lot. I met tons of people that I continued gaming with that were initially enemies in Dark Age. This carried on into Warhammer as well. Sometimes you develop a lot more respect and admiration for someone who you fight against than who you fight beside.
And of course, all of this desire for a persistency in enemies couples with that sense of enmity that comes from faction-based PvP. They synergize really well.
ACH, forgot about death spam! How many times did you see a 20 line string of “X was killed by Zederok,” and think, “Oh shit, Zederok is a beast! I’m going to stay the heck away from him!”
If even half of the world PVP features make it into the game, I will be very very happy. I think it is too soon to freak out about a console port, it would most likely release several years after the PC version. (if at all)
This game looks more and more fun the more I hear about it. They even have a bar room brawl mini game in the cities 🙂
I haven’t followed this game for one second. I have not even went to their web site to check it out. I haven’t read even one fan boy post how great this game is going to be. I will view their web site today for the first time and even read the fan boy rambling to see what this game is all about.
My entire focus was on SWTOR up until I stopped playing after one month. K&G have a insight to gaming that is similar to my own. So I’ll take their word on this one. GW2 doesn’t even have to be that great to be better the SWTOR. If it sucks it will be just one of the many flops over the last few years. If it sucks I won’t be the only one throwing my money away.
I’ll be killing some of you if I like the game or not. What other game am I going to play until Dominus comes out?
Just be sure you recognize I’m only pointing you towards ideas that I have yet to actually see for myself. 😉 I can only HOPE PvP turns out how they’ve presented it.
No, I prefer to blame you if it doesn’t work out; it is so much easier than taking personal responsibility for my own actions, thanks! 😉
I know Keen, we’re all just hoping for the best. I’ve said it before but here I go again; I’ve tried not to get hyped up on this game due to being burnt several times before, but ArenaNet is making it damn hard not to get hyped ><
I read and watched everything I could on the web site. I went to a few sights and watched their gaming footage. I even read fan boy posts until my eyes were bleeding. After digesting the information I came to a few unsubstantiated conclusions.
Crafting was added to the game because without it, nobody would call this game an MMO. Very little thought and resources went into the crafting system. As a result many players will say why even bother.
You better play this game with friends, be part of a good guild or be lucky with pugs. Most of the community will come from the free loader crowd. If it had a subscription fee Iâ€™d feel a lot better.
The open PvP world has a chance at being great but only if people stay out of instanced PvP zones. I hate to say this, having no basis what so ever but most people will be in the instances. Why? Because that is what they have been doing for years and are most comfortable with. Itâ€™s easy. It doesnâ€™t require a lot of time. You donâ€™t need to find a group etc…
I liked the graphics, character creation and the look of the various characters. The system of switching weapons which changes your skills is awesome. Itâ€™s like having four characters in one. The maps are well done and I liked the idea of having easy travel. Getting away from the carved in stone trilogy is OK by me as well. Having the ability to heal yourself is the way it always should have been. The cash shop system will be a way the devs can earn a living and keep the servers running.
Iâ€™ll play the game because there isnâ€™t anything else worth playing that I havenâ€™t played already.
“You better play this game with friends, be part of a good guild or be lucky with pugs. Most of the community will come from the free loader crowd. If it had a subscription fee Iâ€™d feel a lot better.”
To be honest, they should make “free” server(s), and pay to play server(s). The “free” server(s) would have to buy the expansions (as planned right now) while the pay to play server(s) would get expansions included in the price of their monthly subscription.
I’d play on the paying servers without thinking twice, even if it means paying a bit more than just buying expansions. The “free to play” player crowd is scary, and the game being PvP centric will only make it way worse. Expect the filth of the gaming community to fill this game.
I have not really seen horrid crowds in gw1, not in the same manner as f2p games at least. Also large sub games like wow or swtor seem to have far worse crowds then gw1. Most people i know also who are kept away by subs are also kept away by box purchases.
Also competitive pvp is not connected to pve world while wvw is. If people want bonuses they will do wvw. This is different from the warhammer issue where everything was connected.
Craft is extremely uninspiring, especially in its connection to pvp.
“Also large sub games like wow or swtor seem to have far worse crowds then gw1.”
Gonna agree to disagree here. If WoW’s community is bad, GW1’s community is utterly catastrophic. There’s no immersion possible with the insane amount of kiddies with retarded names not even able to spell two consecutive English words correctly.
apparently the 3 maps are placeholders, each map will be different come launch.
I gotta disagree again, I find GW1 community to be very very good. Ofc there’s some rotten apples but I’ve asked for help several times in GW1 and actually GOT HELP, that has not happened me in WoW since vanilla or maybe TBC, this is what I now use guildchat for instead.
And I’ve played F2P titles, I can’t see where these communities have been any worse than the community in WoW. And, I played Age of Conan from release and some 6 months or so (while it was a sub game), I’ve never seen such a horrible community in a game ever…