I first wrote about the mentoring feature in some MMO’s back in 2008. My take on the subject back then was an apprehensive one with concerns that the cons of such a system might outweigh the pros. I’m going to change my tune a bit.
First, what is mentoring?
It’s the ability for a higher level players to group up with someone lower than him or her and reduce their level, abilities, and overall power to that of the person they are mentoring.
My primary concern with mentoring (back in 2008) was that this would hinder newer players from finding groups; I was right, too, since it actually happened to me when I resubscribed to EQ2. I wanted to join groups with players my level but they would rather have a fully geared mentor than a newer player. Unfortunately, my experience may have been in a vacuum. I was playing a game that had been out for years and I was doing content that the vast majority of players has surpassed.
More often than not, I look back fondly on lower level content in TRUE MMORPG’s; that is to say, the ones that are not just themeparks. I don’t look back at WoW and say “boy I sure wish I could go back and do wailing caverns!” I’m talking about the days of passing up certain dungeons in DAOC or EQ when the journey to the end was much longer and often times finding a group for certain locations was harder to do, leaving you to sometimes skip a location. Being able to mentor down and have a second chance to do that content on your current character seems reasonable.
Additionally, while it may hurt true new players, it also helps true new players. I bet for every time a person gets left out (like I was) there are three or four times someone gets included because someone mentors down and becomes that final slot needed in a group, lest the rest of the group forfeit the opportunity due to lack of numbers.
I believe mentoring is also a better solution than the increasingly popular idea of making those newbie instances higher level. Know what I’m talking about? It’s when the level 10 instance is turned into a level 50 version. The spirit felt while doing that dungeon at level 10 is lost on a max level experience.
Taking the mentoring one step further, though, is the idea of “self-mentoring”. I just learned about this while doing some quick googling. EQ2 apparently added the ability for players to “self-mentor” down for a price (done in 5 level increments). I don’t know how I feel about this yet. I have a post in the works for tomorrow that will actually cover this topic more thoroughly as it relates to something else. While I’m getting that post ready, I’d be interested in hearing what you think about mentoring in general and/or the ability to lower you own level without mentoring someone else.
I agree with most of that. Mentoring is extremely welcome in all the MMOs I play that have the feature.
EQ2’s chronomagic, the “self-mentoring” that you refer to is a brilliant addition to the game and one that I use very frequently. Even on Freeport, probably EQ2’s busiest server, you can’t possibly hope to find people wanting to do the dungeon you want to do when you want to do it. EQ2 has scores of dungeons and some of them are a LOT more popular than others. With chronomagic a level 90 can drop down to any level and explore all the places he missed leveling up – and not just dungeons, either.
The main problem with EQ2’s system is that mentored characters are much more powerful than actual characters of that level. I don’t mind that myself but a lot of people do. It isn’t a problem with the concept of mentoring, though, just with the implementation and it’s already been confirmed that the devs would like to tweak it so that a mentored character is closer in power to an unmentored one.
I totally agree that mentoring down to do content is a MUCH better solution than having content scale up to meet you at higher levels. That really is an inane solution.
I think your comment about endgame versions of low level dungeons is not entirely on the mark. While I’m sure that the experience offered by the endgame dungeon is lackluster, it certainly isn’t always. I remember doing expert Iron Tombs in Rift for the first time — clearing the first few bosses (the same ones in the low level version) was somewhat dull (although seeing how they expanded the mechanics of the fights was kinda cool). But once you hit the last normal boss, it got really interesting. You are aware that the story of the instance ended a certain way in the normal mode, but in expert you kill the boss and a plot twist happens. Now the big baddie shows up and paralyzes you while she corrupts the spirit you just fought to free, and then retreats into a new part of the dungeon that was previously inaccessible. This plot point is then carried forward in another level 50 dungeon later on.
The awareness of how the content is supposed to go, and then the violation of expectation in order to further the plot definitely can be an effective device when it’s done right.
Mentoring exists in City of Heroes and has existed for years. It is an amazing system in that game, something that all MMOs should have. The game scales everything up or down AND XP gains as well as loot is scaled as well.
Once upon a time the scaling was easy to do, since there is no loot drops in City of Heroes, but that has changed to a degree and now even the loot drops are scaled. I could never understand why EVERY MMO does not have a similar system, encouraging grouping between people, no matter the level should be a standard. Surely it is simply a case of designing a scaling mechanism for the MMO?
Item power, ability power are worked and tested according to level in any case in MMOs, why not use that calculation to scale item power and and ability power accordingly. In City of Heroes, you LOSE powers as you scale down, going back to the powers you had at that level. Most MMOs use a skill acquisition progression as you level, surely it should not be THAT hard to know what abilities characters have at certain levels and put them back to it?
Keen, you seem to mention DAOC in about every thread these days. Why are you not playing the game? It seems you love every aspect of it 🙂
@Valtray: A couple of reasons.
1) DAOC is old. Things just get old and it’s time to move on.
2) DAOC changed when an expansion came out and over the years it has been manipulated. It’s a game that -was-.
[…] Keen re-examines mentoring as a game mechanic on his blog with a more positive view than a previous post. The post and comments support mentoring as being a better solution than adjusting dungeon difficulty when addressing the level-disparity between your character and the characters of friends. […]
I wish an EQ2 style system was in other games, the games I play regularly do not have it and I face very regularly the dilemma of not having a character at even vaguely the right level. Whether the system works perfectly or not it would be nice to have something to avoid trivialising content completely when helping friends out.
Keen nailed it- even though I don’t share his harsh opinion of WoW I share his love for the memory of pre-ToA DAoC. One thing that I’ve noticed as time goes on and content in general is made easier to obtain is the necessity of alt-itis as a result, and I believe that cheapens the experience in many ways. In DAoC I made the decision before go-live that I would be a healer, and I spent roughly 90% of my time with that character. I had a true attachment to that character and truly considered him my avatar. One of my biggest regrets about selling my first WoW account (during BC) was that I had that same attachment to my orc shaman, but even though I really enjoyed Lich King, I don’t have anywhere near that attachment to the undead priest I played for the entire expansion. I’m really hoping SWTOR will give me that attachment to the Sage I plan to play. To me, that attachment to your character is one of the main things that distinguishes an MMO from a game like Team Fortress 2 (which is also one of my top 5 alltime games but for entirely different reasons)
I found the opposite actually. The fact i could be mentored or side kicked up and down in COX made it a lot easier for me to play with friends and find groups.
I second that. CoX side-kick system is something all MMOs should have. Grouping up is the easiest in CoX than any other MMO, and meaningful grouping, not some random dungeon.
First time I experienced Mentoring was in CoX and it was amazing. Had some friends that joined a few weeks after I did and I was able to join them and have fun without the need to have seperate characters. This way, people with different amounts of time to play can still enjoy the game without much hassle.
This holds true for all content, dungeons, open world, etc, being able to just level up the character I love yet still be able to group up with friends when they do show up is great.
Only thing that would hold me back from doing it continually would be the loot. I do like me some new gear, so sometimes I would join a high level group for new loot instead of joining lowbie friends.
But the new WoW “upgrade” would help a bit. Join lowbie friends for a chance of coolLOOKING loot which I can put epic stats on would be an incentive.
Although it tends to break immersion, I suppose that mentoring would have its benefits. I hate “leveling out” of a battleground as happened in WAR. I like to choose the battlegrounds that I want to play in, and resent being channeled into ones I don’t care for…