“Version 5”, as this patch is called, rolled out on the Allods Online NA servers this afternoon and with it came many major changes to the game. Being level 38.5, and leveling and playing with what is essentially the vanguard of beta testers, I want to comment on how these changes will affect the game. I won’t be addressing every major change but you can view all the changes on our forums.
PvP Flagging – The new flagging system switches the game from being a “WoW PvP Server” to a “WoW PvE Server”. If you don’t know what those are, essentially your character was vulnerable to PvP in level 23+ zones. You used to be able to attack anyone or be attacked unless inside of a quest hub. The new system enables a flagging system where you can opt in/out of PvP. When your flag is on you’re vulnerable. When your flag is off you’re safe.  However, there’s more to it. EXP with the PvP flag on is boosted to 110% and EXP with the flag off is dropped to 90%.
Does this change the feel of the game? YES. Going from a completely open PvP system to a guarded one makes an enormous difference because it changes the feel of the game. Here is where the exp boost and penalty come into play though. I want the exp boost. By taking the risk of having my PvP flag on I am being rewarded with 20% more experience than someone who plays it safe. If you’re truly against being vulnerable when you don’t want to be then turn your flag off, but accept that you’re sacrificing for that safety. This truly may be the best of both worlds and a very nice take on the flagging system. There -will- be people flagging for the bonus and there -will- be people playing it safe. Which side will outweigh the other… time will tell. One comforting thing about it all though is that the Astral PvP will be open pvp regardless of your flag, and that’s where the “endgame” happens.
Death Penalty – In addition to the wait time in purgatory, you now receive a debuff that renders you basically a potato. You’re not going to kill anything with the debuffed stats. You now have to spend Myrrh to remove this debuff in addition to any Myrrh you spend to bribe your way out of Purgatory. Myrrh costs gold and gets used faster than you think. The debuff also stacks if you die back to back — up to four times. At level 40 a single death will cost you ~3.5 gold. That’s not exactly chump change given how much I die. Does this ruin the game? Not at all. Death wasn’t bad enough and it played into the game. People would zerg rush attackers by dying and respawning quickly. There needed to be some sting added.
Zone Fixes – Coba Plateu has been fixed along with a few other quests and zone problems. I have heard nothing but rejoicing after the patch from everyone when questing because more quests were added to the 30-35 areas and the quest rewards are functioning properly.
Polish and Additions – A massive wave of polish and updates to much of the game were brought about in the patch.  The capital city received a few updates, the UI received numerous updates, the chat functionality was updates, the quest system was changed, and overall the polish of the delivery in regards to much of the information was updated. For example, my combat log is functioning much better now and my ability to track quest progress and know what I need to complete world mysteries has been improved. There are now Fortune Tellers in the capital city that will give you hint at where you should be leveling or major things you should be doing at your level.   It’s a very clever way of helping people and making it blend into the city. NPC’s, gear, graphics, ui, and other visual changes were added that simply improved the game further.
It’s Christmas! – Since this patch was released in Russia in December, the devs decided to leave in the Christmas event for us so that we could have fun. Fun masks, cute quests, nice cosmetic gear, and actually some very good gear that you can get if you work your Holiday Rep up to Respected. It’s nice to see that they’re going to support events like this in-game and give the community some attention.
There was a definite swing towards the cash shop in this patch. I’m not going to lie and say it means nothing either. The ever-so-slight drift scares the crap out of me. They changed the treasure chest system to be 1 per day instead of being able to get a treasure chest from each zone thus making it more enticing to buy chests from the shop (remember, random items in them). They improved the usefulness of stat potions (buffs you can buy from the cash shop), made “perfume” more important, and just overall made it more enticing for people to spend money. Does any of this break the game? No, it really doesn’t. The perfume changes have me really wondering though, but I feel too ignorant about it to really comment one way or another.
The patch itself provides the potential to leave the game in a petter position than it was before. The polish and additions to the game are all -good- things. It’s simply the changes to the core of the game, such as the PvP flagging, that I want to see play out before I declare an absolute success. I’m going to reach level 40 sometime tomorrow and I’ll bring you more of my thoughts as I experience (hopefully) the Astral ships as well as high level dungeons.
I’ve got to say, I’m following your Allods posts very eagerly and can’t wait to try it out for myself. Thanks for your great coverage. I hope they develop a Mac version at some point, or I may just have to bring out BootCamp and try it again. Hopefully this time without the BSOD haunting me at every turn.
I’m a bit surprised by the PvP changes, but I haven’t played Allods past level 10 so didn’t get into any action. Keep us posted!
Hmm I’m kinda worried about the cash shop changes. But, honestly, if the game is as awesome as it sounds, an MMO version of One Piece, I would subscribe. So I could justify to myself spending $10-$15 a month on it.
Thanks for the update!
Still no mini map? Reckon it will ever happen?
Question: Do your deaths in PvP cause the debuff as well? Cause that seems like kind of a harsh penalty, especially since there’s the waiting game in Purgatory on top of that.
Or did they change that too?
Only a potato. SO that may be its bad feature.
Nice to hear the PVP changes! I stopped playing allods at all as soon as I read that its open PVP for everyone starting in the 20ies.
So, now I’m back, see you in game 🙂
This update has been great, so many of the translation errors have been corrected. Even clerics have Fanaticism mentioning the need for Wisdom. The GMs it appears have been very busy with the updating.
The Cash Shop scares me for several reasons. Even though Alchemy can make potions, what stat potions will be available in the Cash Shop that Alchemists can’t make? I have no complaints with the Cash Shop in general but I hope more practical items like Traveling teleport stones are for sale and mounts, vs. PvP changing items like Stat potions that you can only obtain in the Cash Shop come Open Beta.
Keen – I’m curious to know if you think just boosting the overall exp of Mobs and Quests would solve the under leveling issue for zones and reduce the need for mindless grinding? I’ve personally enjoyed the 2x EXP being turned on for the remainder of CB4 because the rewards of leveling more frequently out weight the drag of feeling like one has grinded forever only to get one or 2 levels a night at 21 🙁
I can always come back to a game if I get bored with the end game content and wait for more to be released or edited. But I never come back to games if the grind is seriously grinding my brain in. I’m sure others feel this way as well.
The flagging system just dramatically lessened my interest. The Holy Lands just became another PvE zone.
Do PvP deaths cause the debuff?
A small correction: x * 1.10 / x * 0.9 = 1.222… = 22.2%
How long does it take for the PVP flag to disappear once you decide to turn it off? I believe this is something like 5 minutes in WoW. It is significant because with a short turn off time you could easily swap it on and off when needed.
The PvP flag takes 5 minutes in Allods. I’m curious if you can flag to just turn in quests? Mob XP has always been relatively insignificant.
Overall the patch seems really nice though
@Shrike- A dev interview a while back covered the mini map question and from the sound of it they aren’t considering a mini map, they did mention a possible option to toggle on a map overlay on the screen but no plans for a mini map like in other games. I personally don’t even miss it anymore, it takes no time at all to open up you’re map see where you want to go and head that way. It’s helped me learn the zones a lot better as well.
I really like the PvP changes, I think the 20% xp bonus for being flagged will make a lot more people stay flagged and hopefully lead to group questing open pvp zones. Alternatively if I have a limited amount of time and want to do some rep quests unmolested I can unflag and grind with the time I have available.
I expected the perfumes available in the item shop to be buffed a little and honestly it sounds like they did a decent job of balancing it. The buffs are worthwhile without really overpowering those who buy them. Hopefully the potions available in the item shop follow that trend. All in all the game got a lot better with this patch and hopefully will continue this trend as we enter OB and live.
The harsh death penalty can be completely taken away with using perfume that last 30 minutes. For those 30 minutes you get a nice hp/mp buff AND are imune to the death penalty for the duration, regardless of how much dying you do. So if you want to zerg-rush, just put some perfume on and go right ahead!
There is one daily quest that grants you one perfume bottle. And you can get more from the item shop. If it is not too expensive, then it will become the sort of “subscription price” for this game. And this game is DEFINITELLY worth a 15$ a month spending, much more than any of the newer releases I have played (Aion, War, AoC).
I support this patch.
The whole complaining on the forums of “OMG Death Penalty! I Quit!” has gotten out of hand. There is nothing in the game that MAKES you have to use the cash shop to by-pass the death penalty.
It has been stated before that getting stuff from the cash shop can be found in game but on a very rare chance.
former EQ players will be used to playing with a penalty as dying there meant losing experience and possibly levels, here it just means your a gimp and have to sit out of the fight unless you have the stuff to ungimp yourself.
The PvP change could be a deal breaker for me. I still can’t get on server 1 so have not played the game much (from what I have I enjoy). I was really looking forward to open PvP though, shame.
The PVP flag swapping change ….. has sorta turned me off Allods. I love WORLD pvp and I detest flag systems. I agree that this system does sound a lot better, on paper, than previous flag systems but like Terroni was hinting at above, there are probably going to be ways to abuse the system (like every other flag based system).
“The PvP change could be a deal breaker for me. I still can’t get on server 1 so have not played the game much (from what I have I enjoy). I was really looking forward to open PvP though, shame.”
There are a lot of quests in the Holy Land that ask you to attack and kill the opposing factions NPC soldiers. As soon as you do this, you’re flagged for PvP. Therefore, just hang out near your factions NPC soldiers and wait for someone to attack them and get flagged. You could even hide in the tents around most encampments and surprise a lot of people this way.
Yes people could avoid these quests but that’s a considerable loss of XP if they choose to do so. I’m guessing people will instead form up in groups to tackle them, similar to how they group up to take on elite quest bosses (since most are kill quests that can be shared). The end result could be that you see more enjoyable PvP around these specific quests types.
Finally note that when you’re 5 minute PvP flag counter is counting down, it will get reset when you attack anything (i.e. a spider or rat). Thus someone can’t attack an NPC faction mob and continue killing spiders till their PvP flag deactivates. They have to sit it out for a full five minutes, attacking nothing, if they want to get unflagged.
“The PvP flag takes 5 minutes in Allods. I’m curious if you can flag to just turn in quests?”
Great question. Will have to test that out. Hopefully they’ll implement a tracker of some kind to ensure that each item or kill is collected while PvP’d. If not, the XP will get reduced accordingly.
@RevMrBlack: Yes, PVP gives you the death debuff.
@killergnomie: This does remove the world pvp from the game. It will stop the adhoc pvp raids and the random skirmishes that popped up for no reason. However, it will also stop the people 2-3 levels above you being able to completely annihilate you. In this game levels make such a huge difference. It’s going to change the feel of the game, but it may be acceptable since real pvp will happen in the Astral where there is no flag system.
@Static: The boosted exp we have right now is a bit too much. How it’s calculating it is:
1410 (Quest EXP) * 1.25 = 1762.5
1762.5 + 1410 = 3173 (Final Reward)
That’s without fatigue. With fatigue you double that.
3173 * 2 = 6346
For a quest that was originally going to give you 1410 experience to give you 6346 is a tad much to have at launch. However, the addition of a simple 10% experience for having a PvP flag on makes a bit of a difference.
3102 When all is said and done for a PvP Flag ON
2538 When all is said and done for a PvP flag OFF
Significant difference there.
Here’s an interesting find for some of you worried about a lack of PvP.
These will certainly lead to some major PvP battles.
So does all the open PvP in the Astral only happen between ships, and after boarding each ship? Or are there allods on which you can adventure round and find some open pvp there?
There are allods. I am not certain whether or not they’re private or public. It only makes sense to me that they’re public.
There are also rumors coming out of RU that guilds can claim allods and fight for them. (This is coming in the future)
PvP Flag – it sounds like a neutering of PvP. I am not excited about this and it sounds very lame. The 20% experience difference doesn’t seem worth it yet. I can see how it could theoretically balanced like this but I feel there needs to be more.
Something closer to a -10% +30% seems like more of an incentive. Instead of approaching this by balancing or saying: if you really want to PvP here is a way to do it and some incentive – it should be approached by saying: If you really want to exclude yourself from PvP – here is a way to do it but…
PvP flag on should be the norm…and exclusion the exception. I dont think it needs to be balanced between the two – it needs to be unbalanced to favor one over the other – I think it should favor PvP flag on (which is not unreasonable since it was always on anyway)
The death penalty: Seems like a change in the right direction. Just to avoid the “Can you kill me I need to port to X” crowd.
@Argorius: I agree that excluding yourself from PvP should mean you suffer a tad more. Ultimately it is neutering PvP. No doubt about that.
the pvp flag idea is brilliant. i can’t believe we haven’t seen it in other games before… i wouldn’t be suprised if WoW steals this flagging system, it would go a long way toward bringing back world PvP without alienating the carebears.
Well, IMO the addition of a Flag PvP system instead of Open PvP counterbalances the introduction of a severe death penalty that requires you to spend cash in the item shop to buy reasonable amounts of perfume.
But if i were them i would create PvP servers for the PvP crowd – it would net them more money.
I stoped playing at around level 15 a week ago (i am at the ZIT Headquarters) but i will like start playing again a bit soon. I am in the European Beta though.
So how are those chat system changes?
Great news, mostly. I think the PvP-flag thing will bring in 100 new players for every one it upsets.
I’m still not playing. Keeping my powder dry for closed beta, but this tempts me to have a few more CB sessions 🙂
Some questions:
If you do nothing at all to alleviate your death debuff, does it eventually wear off? Or do you HAVE to use Myrrh to remove it?
That PvPBanner – where it says “allows you to attack unflagged players”, does that mean what it appears to mean? If so, surely that defeats the point of letting people have a flag in the first place?
Yes, you get more experience when PvP flagged, but no doubt you will be ganked and time will be lost. Over time I think the exp curve will even between the two.
while I’m hardly thrilled about the pvp flags, I find it tolerable. I do, however, question the benefit of creating a rigid 2 faction system in which the 2 factions are not perpetually in conflict with one another. I want to be able to interact with everyone, be it through socializing or competing. A rigid faction system removes my ability to socialize with half of my server, theoretically to promote competition. If that same system has a subsystem that also removes my ability to compete with those players, we’re left with no options for interaction and little purpose. In that case, how is the 2 faction system beneficial to either of us?
The war banner cracks me up.
“Let’s put in a flagging system, so that thousands of the most carebearish players possible will play our game! Then, we’ll put in an item that lets the gankers gank them anyways, exponentially increasing thier frustration because they thought they were safe. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”
What’s the over/under until the forum crying gets this item removed? 15 days after launch?
My thought exactly Gali.. While the flagging prevents random (and lazy) gankers coming in and killing people all it takes is to find a warbanner and we’re right back to square one. And it doesn’t take all that much to find a war banner and save it for the next time they just want to gank randoms.
@Bhagpuss: Death Penalty wears off after 30 min. That pvp banner means what it says. You can attack non-flagged players.
@Gali: It’ll stop the frequency of ganking, but essentially it won’t change much.
I think we’ll see it changed back to the old system, or we’ll see two server types (without the warbanners). That’s my prediction.
Also it is not easy to be on the holy lands with your pvp flag down. Many of the quests involving killing flagged enemy NPCs, and even if you dont kill them, if you just defend yourself from their aggro it will get you flagged. While you are flagged basically any buff or heal you cast on yourself will renew your flag, so it isn’t just a matter of grinding for a bit while waiting for your flag to go down. Also you will lose a lot of xp from not doing the pvp quests and leveling was balanced keeping those in mind.
Allods is still very much a pvp game. It just will now give options for people to opt out of pvp and still progress with their characters. I think you will see a lot more flagged players than unflagged.
This is actually much more of a protection to those that arrive at the game later when the majority of players are already capped, so that lower leveled players (and allods is the most brutal leveling-power per level I have ever experienced in a game, 1 or 2 levels is very substantial) will be able to progress after level 23 even if they are behind the population curve.
One thing to consider as well, is that if your flagged for PvP and want to switch over, you’ve got a 5 minute window before you actually flag off the option. As was alluded in previous posts, you attack anything and/or buff yourself and the timer will reset. Also, if someone attacks you in this time, the timer will reset.
The timer resets if you change the zone your in. So if you warp to another zone, the timer will reset again. The game itself will always let you flag yourself onto PvP at any time but flagging yourself off is another matter altogether.
Also the war banner’s are also announced to the entirety of zone chat, meaning players on both factions know that you’ve used it and can be attacking even non-flagged players. Consider it a warning to those just grinding away. If the devs don’t make this a cash shop item, and keep it a drop, then there really isn’t an issue. Another thing to consider is the item doesn’t stack and if you die, the banner will disappear. Thus, taking away the permanency simply stacking the items and using them whenever you please.
Thanks for the answers Keen.
Very interesting Tarridus. I automatically assumed the Banner was a cash shop item, which would cause all kinds of issues. If it is a drop, and with the disadvantages you point out, then it’s an intriguing and fun addition, I think.
I would imagine that the zone announcement when you use the banner will not just warn unflagged players but also attract vigilantes to hunt and kill the banner-wearer. Could be a lot of fun. I’d imagine the banner will get used immediately before the ganker strikes, but his life-expectancy afterwards would be limited.
lol @ Gali! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day!!!
@Bhagpuss: My thoughts exactly.
my kneejerk reaction is that pvp/pve flagging is terribad.
most people will stay PvE flagged, and gankers will have fewer targets, BUT those who dare flag PvP will be ganked to oblivion.
when these victims then call for help of their faction mates, the reply will be: Flag PvE, noob.
Ok to clarify my post.
I like PvP games, and i like PvE games. But having flagging systems like this gives me a sour taste in my mouth. a) It’s another immersion bubble popper. b) it’s another feature people will exploit, and they WILL. because it’s something that potentially can make you invulnerable or enable you to kill someone who thinks they are safe.
They need to pick one chair: Either you’re PvP, or PvE. I strongly believe if you try to satisfy both player bases you’ll end up p-ing off both.
I agree with Galil: They will probably remove that banner. If they don’t kudos to them.
office jerk, as I mentioned it isn’t very simple to keep your PvP flag OFF. It is a significant hit on XP not only becuase of the 10% xp penalty, but on all the PvP-enabled quests that you just cannot complete (since killing enemy faction NPCs or buffing your faction NPCs flags you) and this game was designed with quest-based leveling to progress. Therefore I am not quite sure there will be enough pve only quests to progress.
Also, once your PvP flag turns on, say that you defend yourself from an NPC of the enemy faction that attacks you, any other spell you cast on yourself will reset the flag timer. For instance if you are a pscionist like me and you simply cast your speed buff, you are flagged again, etc…
So for all intents and purposes what this offers is a chance to get away from ganking in extreme circunstances, and some farming in peace, but efficient leveling will still require your flag up, this remains a PvP game mostly.
also, I really really hope you guys are right in your predictions about epic PvP battles, and hunting gankers. But i honestly see nothing that would make this different from WoW PvP which is 99% ganking (i.e. a high level going around killing targets of opportunity) until someone brings their high level character and all the eThuggery that follows from that.
not that i mind, i kinda liked the pvp servers in wow, sure, it’s lame to be corpsecamped by an 80 druid (although corpsecamping seems to be dealt with in this game since you spawn at your last bind). But some of the most fun small-scale battles i’ve ever had in wow have been the most memorable.
I leveled up a troll shaman on a pvp server once, and throughout his leveling, i kept almost the same pace as an human mage. And we would get into tufts of varying outcome. It was really fun (until about duskwallow marsh where he started getting on his main toon and camp my bones until i logged).
i digress a bit.
lastly, here’s hoping for a game that gets us back to Tarren Mill versus Southshore.
those were the days.
I don’t see epic PvP battles happening. Most folks will tire of paying out the gold for the death penalty, so I expect every player will run around unflagged most of the time. Even the PvPers will go unflagged alot to get some farming done so they can afford to PvP again.
The fights that do happen will be really satisfying probably, but they’re not going to happen frequently like in say, WAR. The death penalty, and way to avoid it is far to easy. We’ve seen players take the path of least resistance in MMOs for years now. I don’t see it changing here.
Hmm… The pvp flagging is for every server?
The pvp toggle option makes it from where I would probably never play this game to I KNOW i will NEVER play this game.
I agree with Gali. A hefty (as in time or money consuming) death penalty and a optional PvP system. I am sure people will avoid PvP a LOT. And i can see, even in the endgame people avoiding to attack other people’s ships unless the victory is almost assured.
well people who pay (buy perfume) will be able to pvp just as much as they always had.
@ wolfiebr: Which is the reason behind the contradiction that’s been causing so much distress on the forums. By implementing a PVP flag system to lessen the amount of random ganks, Nival is attempting to appeal to a larger audience. The pvpers will have to learn and adopt to the new system, i.e. utilizing warbanners, and ambushing the opposing faction attempting to do their pvp quests. Considering Holy Lands isn’t “endgame”, with the new patch it will do a fairly good job of wetting the appetite of players while still allowing everyone to progress at a reasonable pace without losing playerbase.
The contradiction is between the flag system and the death penalty. The following is why
Death penalty debuff- 25% debuff on all stats that can stack up to 4 times
Duration-1 hour
Methods of removal- 3.5g or buying perfume from cash shop
If PVP=death, death=fear of death debuff, and fear of death=loss of time, it leads me to conclude that PVP=fear of death debuff.
If PVP quests are essential to lvling in Holy Lands, and pvping results in death, how are players expected to lvl without sacrificing hours or money. Everytime a player dies they must submit to the cash shop or lose play time. 25% is just too large of a gimp, and an hour is just too long of a duration.
Not only is Nival creating a contradiction within the game mechanics, they are doing so by implementing cash items that would give players with money, the ability to no longer fear death, an advantage over those who can’t afford the costly removal. Meaning whether or not you have the money for removal, you will hesitate before arming yourself and heading off to pvp your heart away.
I completely support and understand Nival’s implementation of the flag system. But once again a game with so much potential is lead down a path that will result in a large loss of playerbase due to the cash shop. Take everything I said with a grain of salt, it is all conjecture, but a conjecture based upon my logic. Of course nothing is set in stone until tested.