Strategy exists – Teamwork a must

Keep Defense

Keep Defense

I’ve seen a lot of talk going on about the level of tactical gameplay and strategy that can be used in Warhammer Online compared to other mmorpgs. The truth to such claims is really staggering. I have been trying to discover and apply as much strategy as possible over the past couple weeks and want to share a few:

  • Collision Detection can be used to Block the enemy from running away. If you can snare the enemy get your big tanks to stand in front of them. They won’t be able to retreat. Use your collision detection to block terrain, bridges, doors, etc. It’s funny and effective.
  • Use the terrain to your advantage! The RvR areas are designed with valleys perfect for ambushes (I’ve fallen victim to SEVERAL.) Use trees, rocks, hills, walls, and anything you see to block line of sight.
  • Position people at the postern door to catch the enemy as they come to defend their keep.
  • Ping a keep to get the enemy thinking that you’re going to assault it. Scout them with stealthers to ensure the enemy is going there en masse to respond. When the majority of their troops are in transit take the opportunity to have your army attack a different keep. This will cause confusion as to which keep is under attack while giving you several minutes head start on a ‘hopefully’ undefended keep.
  • Knock people off ledges, cliffs, bridges, etc with your knockbacks! Several classes have big knockbacks and these can be used to launch people. Remember, falls are deadly in this game.

That’s just a few of the strategies that can be deployed every time you log in.

Teamwork is possibly even more important than strategy and definitely a must in Warhammer Online. If you played closed beta or the preview weekend you likely encountered some classes that feel like they just don’t die or some classes that single handedly turn the tide of a battle. Teamwork and communication is a must to succeed. Ignoring a bright wizard or letting a Zealot heal unchecked are mistakes of omission that can easily be picked up on. However, the biggest teamwork in WAR lies directly in utilizing every class and member of your group/warband to their fullest potential. This type of teamwork comes with time but has such a drastic impact on the game it’s truly unbelievable.

You’ll notice the teams that work together well because they overcome the odds, blow through imbalances, and get to see results normally seen from a zerg. To break this down to the most basic level, I was playing with a group that worked very well together (Shout out to the HFG!) and we were 6/12 people in the scenario. We worked so well together compared to our enemies that we were able to overcome the enemies simple organization (they were moving as a herd and our team wasn’t) and pull out a win. Healing certain classes over others, attacking certain classes first, sacrificing yourself to draw fire, using a knockdown even though it means you won’t top the damage charts… etc. It’s the teams that use the type of strategies I listed above that will win.

WAR is not balanced for the individual. That’s a big hurdle for some people to climb over. Every class is not balanced for 1v1. Every class is not balanced in every situation. Warrior Priests are going to beat the snot out of almost anyone 1v1. Witch Elves won’t feel as powerful in big keep standoffs. (Examples, not facts) Classes are meant to work together like a well oiled machine. No matter how many times people reiterate this fact I guarantee you there will still be complaints.

The writing is on the wall. Keeps allow guilds to claim them. Keeps require groups of people. The nature of the “RvR areas” (on core servers) encourages zerg-like behavior. Some classes are designed to work in tandem with others (IB and RP anyone?) and the game just naturally flows better when working with others.

Note: I know some people are chomping at the bit to chime in saying “omg WAR is not solo/casual friendly! zomg it’s a WoW clone! Here we go again!” … save yourself the time! There are mechanics in the game, like open groups, that solve a lot of this. But if people working together seeing better results than unorganized zergs means WAR is a WoW clone then whatever.

This type of strategy and teamwork exists in some games – duh. But I have seen the difference it makes in a game like DAOC and the huge differences it already makes in WAR. Play with a group that works well together and you’ll not only see success but you’ll have more fun.

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Tom Go - August 25, 2008

thanks, great writeup – that was one of the last concerns I had with the game and I’m glad it turned out well. but besides complaints about tactics and strategies, many beta-players complain about the fighting system being too slow and all. what’s your opinion on that one?

Toadee - August 25, 2008

The nice thing about this game is that there are no Arenas, so anyone who whines about small-scale class balance can be answered with the explanation that this game is about war, not dueling.

Bwast - August 25, 2008

“WAR is not balanced for the individual. Thatโ€™s a big hurdle for some people to climb over.”

Indeed. I think that is going to take me some getting used to.

Russell Gusto - August 25, 2008

Keen can you tell me your thoughts on the WH vs the WP? I can’t decide between the two! Have you played the WH much? I was going to play a BW but I feel they are too one dimensional and would like a more complex class…want to stay within the Empire.

Thanks and great write ups.

Gustavef - August 25, 2008

What I learned from this weekend. —

PvE is for when you don’t have an organized group to do real RvR ๐Ÿ™‚

Howdy Doody - August 25, 2008

I agree with Tom..another good writeup talking about something different. Very nice.

I found the speed of the battles perfect. I do wish that maybe the bigger the person the slower they ran vs. smaller units but that doesn’t seem to be the case. (maybe I’m wrong). But I LOVE the fact that injured folks run slower! excellent addition.

I also feel that in this game like no other MMO I have played is I really get the sensation that I am beating the hell ata something. I can’t put my finger on why…but NPC or Human…I just really feel like I’m bashing the sheot ata them.

And collision detection works really well. On big Orc in a doorway is a great sight. lol.

Kyle1690 !NI! - August 25, 2008

Yea tactics go along way, a few night ago in prage ( mite be spelt wrong) both sides were zerging eachother over the middle point so me and around 10 guild mates broke off from the zerg and use the side allys, we used our archmage and got him to stand near the enamy zerg to lure a few of them down the ally while the rest of us hid behind some steps, they fell for it nearly every time and we just jumped out and owned whoever was stupid enough to follow the archmage.

Keen - August 25, 2008

@Tom Go – I plan to write about the combat system in a blog post of its own soon. Keep your eyes peeled!

@Russell Gusto – Witch Hunter vs Warrior Priest… wow you’ve certainly picked two very different styles of play there! Both are solid but serve such different purposes.

The Witch Hunter is your ‘get in get out’ melee DPS. You’re going to do a lot of burst damage but suffer from the lack of survivability. I played a WH for a few days starting at level 31 and was amazed at how quickly they kill any class – Yes, they even make quick work of tanks who aren’t being healed – but also how quickly they can die when under attack by more than one person. Make sure you use all of your abilities, even the ones that are strictly defensive because you’re going to NEED them.

Warrior Priests… ahh what an interesting class. Essentially given the survivability of a tank, the damage of a tank, and the ability to heal quite well. Their strength lies in their ability to outlast the enemy. Normally that’s something people consider balanced, however it’s borderline ridiculous in some situations. I’ve seen WP’s survive an entire group smacking on them long enough for them to get away and live. They certainly didn’t kill anyone but they also didn’t die.

Warrior Priests, who are competent, will not lose a 1v1 against anyone. Similar to tanks in WAR, people are under the misconception that they do too much damage because they top the charts in scenarios. The reality of the matter is that they are not doing too much damage.. it’s that they never stop doing damage because they never have to leave the fight.

Now imagine if you take that level of survivability, bring it into a big fight, and use their heals on themselves AND others. So let’s say they half their survivability if they aren’t exclusively healing themselves. They’re still pseudo tanks with the ability to keep others alive.

I consider WP’s to be a supportive turtle class. They’re going to get into the thick of things and help their entire team whether it be from healing or simply giving the enemy something to attack – and not be able to kill. I’ve already instructed my team to ignore the WP’s until the end. Why attack something you can’t kill? Force the WP to start healing others to be useful and you expose their true weakness. That said, they’re still possibly a bit OP’d.

Ian - August 25, 2008

Great writeup, I really couldn’t agree more. Strategy is paramount in WAR. A smaller organized force can easily dismantle the zerg, and I saw it a couple times this weekend. It’s possible to play solo and join an open group, but where the game truly shines, in my experience, is with coordinated groups fighting each other, ESPECIALLY when attacking/defending a keep. LOVE IT!

Vort - August 25, 2008

“What I learned from this weekend. โ€”

PvE is for when you donโ€™t have an organized group to do real RvR :)”


Werit - August 25, 2008

“Knock people off ledges, cliffs, bridges, etc with your knockbacks! ”

And it never gets old ๐Ÿ™‚

Tholal - August 25, 2008

Knockbacks dont cause falling damage.

Keen - August 25, 2008

Correct, but falling off a cliff as the result does. I have died many times from it.

Tholal - August 25, 2008

I have never died from falling off a cliff due to knockback, and I’ve been kicked off a lot of cliffs.

Nollind Whachell - August 25, 2008

Excellent article. Very well said. It’s not about how much damage you do or how many people you kill, it’s about how effectively you help your team win. If it means sitting on a tower top as a spy doing nothing more than relaying their movements then that information is extremely invaluable in winning a battle. Once people start utilizing Teamspeak or Ventrilo, it should be pretty amazing to see the level of teamwork and tactics utilized within the game.

BTW with regards to WAR being solo/casual friendly, I think it’s much more so than WoW. I mean if I’m solo, I can join any RVR combat without having to get invited (like I would with a WoW raid). Also if I’m in a guild and don’t play much (couple times a week only) then when I get online in WAR, I can actually play with my friends whenever I chose to come online because we can ALL get into a RVR battle if we want, since it’s not like a raid where only so many people can participate and thus people feel left out. That’s a huge benefit compared to WoW, as in our guild everyone wants to participate in a raid but not everyone can go.

Finally I concur with your comment about Warrior Priests. There are certain classes that are just too tough to knock out first, thus leave them for later. Start taking out the easier ones first and then you’ll eventually create almost a snowball-like effect as you begin to swarm over the enemy. I’ve been in a couple of RVR battles like this and it was amazing, as we destroyed three quarters of the enemy in one massive increasingly progressive swarm and sent the remainder fleeing back to their start point.

PS. Love the knockback tactic. Reminds me of some of the Quake 3 maps where the object wasn’t so much to rack up kills but instead to avoid falling off into the void and dying. Those that avoided falling off often were in the lead. ๐Ÿ™‚

Gomez - August 25, 2008

Wow all this is so true, I got a Sorceress, Zealot and DoK to level 11 over the weekend and once they get there RR Level 6 Gear from a keep they all play so differently I think I am going to go with either the Zealot of DoK for live but I agree once a group gets organised and plans and thinks around collision detection there is a lot of fun to be had. That and PvE is what you do when you wait for RvR is so so so true. If anyone has any info on Sorc’s in the higher levels I would be keen to hear it.

Popcorn - August 25, 2008

There is a fine line between saying you have to use tactics and teamwork, and the class balance being horrible.

If one class is superpowerful (healer), teaming up with 5 people to defeat it is not the answer. And the only way to survive RvR for longer than 3 seconds as a SH is to stand behind a wall of tanks. However the horrible damage SH do cause kills to take forever. That is not class balance, that is lack of attention to dtail.

I’m not arguing here, its just a simple fact that the classes need more balance. I have no problem with class x beating class y but always losing to class z. However when class x cannot beat y, z, a, b, c, or d-g, then you have a problem. I’ll give them some credit and assume they will fix the problem as you cannot claim to have great pvp when the balance is so horrible.

I’ll just wait and play WAR after a few months, just keep reading the online blogs and see how things turn out. Hell I didn’t play WoW for the first 10 months it was out and I still was in a guild that got first BWL clear on my server, so WAR will wait for me…all in due time.

MWAHAHAHAHAHA…cough, sorry, got carried away.

Keep up the good info, enjoying it, i only wish you had more to say lol. peace

Bartlebe - August 25, 2008

Lookin’ good HFG’s…lookin’ good.

Snafzg - August 25, 2008

Knocking people into LAVA sure does! ๐Ÿ˜‰

Kodo Beast - August 25, 2008

“Knocking people into LAVA sure does! ;)”

Lol yeah. Thunder Mountain (I think?) was the one I played with the lava, and as an Ironbreaker with Rune-etched Axe + knock back tactic… it was an absolute BLAST. So much so that I’m desperate to find a similar ability on Destruction (Eeek! is about the closest I’ve found so far, but there’s a chance you’ll fall into the lava too).

Andrew - August 25, 2008

Wow, WAR sure sounds like an awesome game. I’ve always loved the need for teamwork. Now… If only 7th September came faster ๐Ÿ™‚

Jaspr - August 25, 2008

I am terribly jealous of you guys… I want to play this game SO BAD !

I almost wish I didn’t care about my schooling as much… almost.


Nollind Whachell - August 25, 2008

“If one class is superpowerful (healer), teaming up with 5 people to defeat it is not the answer.”

Popcorn, I don’t think anyone said that specifically. Actually from the sounds of it, most people agree that certain healer classes are overpowered and need an adjustment.

As for Squid Herders, that’s another class that people seem to think needs an adjustment. However with regards to surviving more than 3 seconds, where are you standing, on the front lines? I mean with their pets almost useless due to pathing issues, I’d be utilizing my bow and shooting from a distance. If you run in with your spear, ya you’ll be dead before you can say “Waaaa…ergh!”

Popcorn - August 25, 2008


lol SH with a spear would die quickly. No, being in the back is great until you get noticed. See almost everyone goes for the SH because he is such an easy kill. No way to keep them at ranged well and no chance in close combat.

Qelln - August 25, 2008

Another great post Keen! I had some fun and headaches with collision detection. Mainly on my DoK when a hallway got clogged by my own teammates and some clothies took a beating and I couldn’t get to the fray. Bah hence the DoK so I can roll with the HFG crew, the Archmage will just have to wait ๐Ÿ˜›

Wyndelln Rank 8 RR6 DoK from The MMO Report

Malic - August 25, 2008

so keen so far what would you rate WAR out of 10?

Gali - August 26, 2008

I completely agree with this article. I can’t tell you how many all tank/healer destro groups we detroyed in scenarios this past weekend. Sure, they were tough to crack, but they couldn’t kill anyone. 500-10, 500-4, 500-0 were all scores we saw, and butt whippings like them occured regularly when the destro group rolled too heavy. We’d have balanced groups, run in and wipe out the healers with our DPS/tanks, and then laugh at the enemy tanks as they tried to kill our healers who were detaunting and covering each other with heals.

I really believe warhammer is more balanced than people think, it’s just not done so in a way that people expected.

BTW, knockback on stonetroll will most certainly kill the squishier classes. I definitely learned to stay right up next to the central tree with my runepriest after my first flight.

Also the runepriest should never die 1v1 to anyone of equal level. It’s not because of the heals either. That Detaunt move makes any class’s DPS irrelevant. Even if the runepriest’s healing were cut by 20%, it wouldn’t matter in 1v1. that said, the runepriest isn’t likely to kill anyone else either, except perhaps a tank after 10 minutes, since you could afford to mix in some offense every few casts or so due to weaker tank DPS. If you are attacking a runepriest solo, and see the blue shield looking thing pop up, it’s time to move on to the next target. You won’t kill them. Can’t tell you how many black orcs I had beat on me for over 2-3 minutes while I just stood still, casting my insta cast HoT and direct heal, while replacing the detaunt every 10 seconds. Eventually, it’d sink into thier think green skulls and they’d finally move on. Or sometimes they’d stick at it till my team finished killing thier friends and came back around to swat them down.

The only destro class that might be able to cut down a runepriest with a detuant up is a marauder. I died more times to marauders that snuck up on me in scenarios or open RvR before I could get them properly detaunted than any other class. Witch elves were something else I watched out for, but not nearly as scary as a marauder for some reason. Maybe because they were just sooo much rarer.

Runepriest is certainly a very powerful support class, but I will also say that my DPS is pretty much nonexistant. runepriest attacks don’t scare anyone ๐Ÿ™‚

Michael - August 26, 2008


That is the point though. If a runepriest can’t die then he can certainly kill any class eventually. Minimal DPS from a RP is still greater than no DPS being done to same RP.

Hello - August 26, 2008

If you can beat the crap out on your warrior priest 1v1 against anyone then why roll anything inferior???Then you can take out few more in zerges before you go down as well. I don’t know but i heard someone was telling that no one will be OP in this game and everyone will be able to stand their ground.

I don’t believe in strategy in warhammer unless you coordinate whole warband or whole scenario there is no strategy.
This game is more simple then people tend to make of it. But its fun.

Russell Gusto - August 26, 2008

I know WP can hold their ground but I’m afraid that I will find them boring i.e. whack, whack, heal, whack, etc. That’s why I’m thinking of running with a Witch Hunter for my main since they seem to be a bit more complex i.e. pop out of the shadows and kill you ๐Ÿ™‚

p.s. Keen I can’t wait to find out what server your guild will be on so I can kill you muuuuhahahahha.

Gali - August 26, 2008

@ Michael

Except the runepriest can’t attack, or the detaunt drops, and then they die. Detaunt only stays up so long as you don’t attack the target. A runepriest can be killed pretty easy without the detaunt.

It only takes 1 more guy to jump on the priest to kill him. If two melee dpsers jump on the runepriest, he’s dead. Only one of them can be detaunted at a time. Sorceress really isn’t all that dangerous, since runepriests have pretty good special resists and they can buff them up even more with a rune. It’s thier physical resist that is easy to punch through.

When I died over the weekend, it was 90% due to a marauder or witch elf. The other 10% was I got separated and alone, and was eaten by a zerg.

Balance. « Archmagery - August 26, 2008

[…] I was thinking about writing an article to talk about this, but Keen – the genius that he is – hit it on the head. From the article: “WAR is not balanced for the individual. Thatโ€™s a big hurdle for some […]

Keen - August 26, 2008

@Malic: I rarely rate mmorpgs on number scales, especially during beta. People often look at number scores and don’t think “OKay, this is rating the game based on what it is and the potential it had for itself… did it live up to it’s own potential?”. People usually think “oh this got a 7 and this got an 8… the 8 is better”.

Looking at WAR, all it could have been, all that it is, all that currently still needs work, and all that has been innovative and borderline revolutionary…

8.9/10 – If they fix the CTD’s, other bugs, and fix the broken classes it’s easily in the 9’s.

Perce - August 26, 2008

Great job Keen, im gonna beat my guildies down and make em read this.

lumio - August 26, 2008

“WAR is not balanced for the individual. Thatโ€™s a big hurdle for some people to climb over. Every class is not balanced for 1v1.”

Greater words have not been spoken! Well Said!

Nollind Whachell - August 26, 2008

@Keen: Couldn’t agree more with your ratings. This game has so much potential it’s unbelievable. Yet like any sort of design work, it’s often that last 10% that’s the hardest to do but only because it’s those last remaining details that really bring everything together into one cohesive amazing experience.

Proximo - August 26, 2008

God forbid that a Massively Multiplayer Online game works better when one play together with others. I mean, its not like we play online to play WITH others, only AGAINST others. Right?


I salute your post Keen, and more importantly Mythic for having the balls to go “you know what… to hell with every class being good in 1v1, we’re making a RvR game and we’re gonna give those who works as a team the benefits”.
It actually comforted me a lot to read, cos while playing beta all I ever saw was zerg zerg zerg. My guild didnt have enough players online (1-3 at best) to make good groups, so I was getting worried that zerg was the endgame I was to expect from release as well. Thanks for clearing that out for me, I’m once again certain that WAR will be “my next WoW” ^^

Aaron - August 26, 2008

“Warrior Priests are going to beat the snot out of almost anyone 1v1.”

Yeah, I learned that the hard way. In general, 1v1 during RvR is a mistake. Don’t wander from the warband.

As a sorcerer, I was really impressed by the number of ways my AoE root spell could be used. Sometimes I used it to stop an injured enemy from retreating to safety. Sometimes I used it to save an ally from chasing enemies. And sometimes I used it to delay a group of enemies just long enough for my team to regroup or reach a more defensible position.

Having multiple applications for one skill makes that skill so much more fun.

junior - August 26, 2008

I definately agree with the talk about needing to use/learn tactics. Most of what you describe is old hat to DAoC players, but just never really existed much in other games.

As for class balance, this is a conversation I have had with people in game, at least 4 seperate times, with totally different people.

Them: “Warrior Priests are totally overpowered. We had 2 people going all out against him and couldnt even touch him.

Me: “What were your classes?”

Them: “Chosen and Zealot”
I get the impression they are the pally/warden from DAoC. Did you ever watch a duel between those classes?
15 minutes later, I supposed you could come to the conclusion that a pally was overpowered, but, uh…no.

As more people ,hopefully, decide to play DPS classes, this issue will, imo, go away.
That being said, assuming the game has an even million people after a month or so, do you think the number playing White Lions will break triple digits?

Yeebo - August 26, 2008

Unless classes have nearly identical abilities you simply can’t balance them well for one on one matchups. At range, a ranged DPS class has a huge advantage for example. In enclosed spaces with lots of corners a melee class with have a large advantage.

I have never played any MMO where charcaters were generally well balanced in one on one matchups. Rock will always lose to paper. And some class designs will inherently have more one on one matchups that they can pull through than others. It’s the nature of the beast.

Pick the playstyle that you like, and if that happens to correspond to a class that only solos well in a very specific type of encounter, then I suggest you use common sense and either group a lot or get good at setting up your narrow range of solo encounters. If you want to be able to solo in a wider range of circumstances, pick a class that can do it. It’s not rocket science.

Drakorn - August 26, 2008

Preach on Brother Keen!

Great article and I couldn’t agree more.

Kodo Beast - August 26, 2008

This approach reminds me a lot of how DotA is balanced. That game wasn’t balanced around 1v1 battles because it’s a 5v5 team game and required coordination and strategy to compete (abusing the terrain is also a HUGE part of DotA). WAR is similar in that 90% of the battles are group vs. group and as such should be balanced for these kinds of battles.

Another great article. Keep ’em coming!

Thallian - August 26, 2008

Great article Keen. Here’s hoping strategy is paramount to success. I loves it, yes I does. ๐Ÿ™‚

Kraevyn - August 26, 2008

I’ll definetly have to get used to the strategy thing…but am looking foward to it actually…a well coordinated Warband will be a beautiful thing : )

Nollind Whachell - August 26, 2008

@junior: Great comment with regards to the “What were your classes?” It’s really gotten me thinking. I mean now I don’t really care if I can’t take out a healer as a tank, as long as some other class can.

I mean it’s almost like Starcraft all over again. The best strategies in that game were to mix your units, not relying on just one or two, and to utilize their individual strengths, while minimizing their weaknesses. So from a WAR perspective again, don’t send out a Chosen to do a Marauders job. ๐Ÿ™‚

Of course as Keen said before though, this game isn’t focused on the individual. Thus if your out questing on your own and come across an enemy class that you’re not optimized in taking out, best stay away from it.

Juhani - August 26, 2008


I thought Starcraft was just about the zerg rush ๐Ÿ˜€

Nissl - August 26, 2008


Generally good points; I do want to add I’ve heard WL are actually quite nasty when their pet is functioning properly. Fire and forget on a caster, if nothing else.

Foehammer - August 27, 2008

Excellent article. I agree with all of your points and I’ve been having discussions along these lines with my guildies since the close of the Preview Weekend.

See you on the battlefield. ๐Ÿ™‚

Nollind Whachell - August 27, 2008

@Juhani: Hehe, well zerg rushes in RVR seem to work sometimes as well. ๐Ÿ™‚

dave - August 27, 2008

after leveling sorc, zealot, and dok to 11 and fiddling round with the other character types i found dok to be pretty darn strong and crazy fun.

that being said… since i didnt level a wp past rank 3 and the abilities seemed to read identically when viewing the core abilities that were to come at higher ranks…. is it fair to say dok/wp, bw/sorc, etc etc that the pairings on each side of the factions are equal? or are there mechanics differences between dok dual wielding and wp that make a noticable difference? same for other mirror-image-classes?

footnote: backlash on the sorceress was huge fail.. with roughly 1200hp a 216dmg backlash is bad enough when not being attacked…. but to help kill yourself when being attacked, no thanks. i found it to proc to frequently and with devastating consequences to really find this mechanic viable for my playstyle. squishy ok… squishy that helps get itself killed not ok. anyone verify that their sorc/bw “xxxxxx was annihilited by xxxxxxx’s backlash for 216 dmg.”

Excelsias - August 27, 2008

Couldn’t agree more. Teamwork is key. I think people will be pleased (and surprised) at how easily zergs will get crushed by organized groups ๐Ÿ˜›

Ralt - August 28, 2008

Reading a few of the class boards on warhammer alliance shows there are some really, really cool abilities for classes to play with. For example, take the High Elf White Lion. One ability he has is Pounce. Activating it means he can fall a large distance without hurting himself. He does aoe damage where he lands. He can also use it to bound over the tanks and into the squishy healers and cloth casters in the rear line.

One other fun fun ability he has is Fetch. If I read it right he sends his pet to an unsuspecting target, activates the ability and WHAM. The target is thrown 50-65 feet back towards the White Lion himself! 50-65 feet is a respectable distance in the game. Just the thing to get that enemy player where you want them to be (eg surrounded by your party!) It’s on a 10 second cooldown so lots of merriment possible there. Of course the enemy can always ruin things by killing the pet as it swoops in, but they have to percieve it as a threat and not be otherwise occupied …

The more I read, the more I like!

Pelkor - August 28, 2008

โ€œWAR is not balanced for the individual. Thatโ€™s a big hurdle for some people to climb over.โ€

This will be WARs ultimate cause for failure.

Pelkor - August 28, 2008

Couldnโ€™t agree more. Teamwork is key. I think people will be pleased (and surprised) at how easily zergs will get crushed by organized groups

No they won’t. trust me.

Capn John - August 29, 2008

“โ€œWAR is not balanced for the individual. Thatโ€™s a big hurdle for some people to climb over.โ€

This will be WARs ultimate cause for failure.”

Pelkor, you may be right, but that’s a problem with people’s perception, not the game. The only PvP games truly balanced for the individual are those where everyone starts out with exactly the same character, with the same weapon, armor & stats (if any exist), such as Quake or Doom.

If your game has multiple classes allowing players to group up and perform different roles within the group, then “balance” should be thrown out the window.

WoW’s toons have three Talent Trees. I’ve always maintained that one Tree was meant to maximize soloing ability, one Tree was to facilitate in Groups/Raids, and the third was designed with PvP in mind.

Blizzard have been constantly messing the classes up by trying to balance them, when you cannot feasibly do that. It’s the classic Rock-Paper-Scissors.
The Rock hates Paper but loves Scissors, and because he’s narrow minded he thinks Paper should be nerfed. Paper hates scissors but loves Rock; Paper thinks Scissors should be nerfed.

You’re not going to satisfy everyone, and if you try to “balance” the classes where every class has a reasonable chance of killing every other class, one-on-one, you might as well get rid of the different classes altogether. But the catch is Rock doesn’t want a reasonable chance of beating Paper, Rock wants to crush Paper like he does Scissors.

This is the real reason why you cannot balance a multi-class game, because people are selfish and only think of themselves, and for those selfish players, Balanced means their chosen class has a very good chance of killing any other player, even if that player ambushes them.

I think as others have said here and on other Blogs, the appeal of WAR might be that successful play requires a more mature, cooperative player who’s willing to work as a team.

WAR will not be the WoW-killer, but it’s probably going to get a very large player base of mature players who enjoy team-based RvR/PvP games.

If they get WAR right, its RvR/PvP will be everything WoW’s AB & WSG matches aspire to be, because people will actually play together, as a team, with winning their goal. You’ve got to admit, that’s far more appealing than zoning into a WoW BG and the first message that pops up is:
“Just let them win. It’s faster Honor that way.”

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