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The Chicken System – What the Cluck is going to happen?

Don't cluck this up Mythic!

Don't cluck this up Mythic!

As most of you know, Mythic’s answer to ganking players lower level than you is an interesting one. Since the game is still under a NDA there are many questions going unanswered regarding the exact details of how this will work on the different rulesets; important details at that.

Here is what we know from officially released information:

  • You are turned into a chicken based on your RvR Flag being on in a tier you have out-leveled.
  • When you are a chicken you can be one-shot by a level 1.


Looking at the Core Ruleset, we know that there will only be specific areas where a player’s RvR Flag is forced on. These locations can be easily avoided. So it stands to reason that on a Core Rulset server you will only become a chicken if you go to a tier below your level and enter these RvR areas or force your flag on manually. This will keep the higher level players from returning to lower level areas and engaging in RvR combat. Good thing!

Now if we look at the Open RvR Ruleset though we start to see a few potential problems. On a Open RvR ruleset your RvR flag is -always- on. Mark Jacobs has stated that the chicken mechanic works exactly the same on both server types. BUT… what does he mean when he says that? Does he mean that it only chickens you when you go into RvR areas or attempt to engage on RvR combat with players lower than you -OR- does it mean that since you have your RvR flag on that you will be chickened the instant you enter a tier lower than you?

These are the questions that I would like to see Mythic clarify:

  • On a Open RvR server can I return to a lower level Tier and work on PvE, Tome Unlocks, and Quests I may have missed or will I be turned into a chicken?
  • On a Open RvR server am I restricted purely to my level’s appropriate tier? If the answer is yes, then wouldn’t this essentially block my ability to help friends/guildmates/etc in the lower tiers with PvE?


I can hypothesize several ways that Mythic could make this system work. I already stated above that perhaps on a Open RvR ruleset players will not be chickenized unless they engage enemy players. Mythic could also enable it so that if you leave your race’s CHAPTERS in the lower level tiers then you are chickenized. This would not only ensure that you are staying on your side of the fence but if you combine the ‘attacking other players’ you also ensure that on a Open RvR server they can’t interfere with RvR should it make its way into your PvE areas.

It’s a fairly sensitive issue right now. Blocking players from going backwards on a Open RvR ruleset would really diminish the Tome of Knowledge and essentially create this nasty sense of content block. When players reach Tier 4 they would be blocked from Tiers 1-3 completely – that’s a tough pill to swallow.

All this said, I still have to weigh out the positives and negatives of the system and decide whether or not it’s all worth it. The answer is easy – although I really hope Mythic handles the chicken system properly, and based on what I’ve read from Mark Jacobs I feel they will, I would still happily play the game on a Open RvR server if the tiers were completely locked out to me once I out-leveled them. Why? Simply because the Open RvR ruleset is worth it to me. The alternatives would be: Me playing on a Core server where I can fight alongside a dwarf and not be able to kill him, or playing without a chicken system and risk being ganked by higher levels all day, or having higher levels affect the outcome of RvR in a tier they don’t belong in. None of those alternatives sound good to me. And honestly, I have to ask myself in all seriousness how often I actually return to lower level content in a mmorpg when I’m higher level – not that often; so being restricted to appropriate content for my level isn’t something I would be unaccustomed to… I think perhaps it’s just the idea of KNOWING that I am restricted to the content that would bother me.

This will be interesting to watch and see how it turns out.

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Bartlebe - August 11, 2008

“I think perhaps it’s just the idea of KNOWING that I am restricted to the content that would bother me.”

This is what bothers me too. I rarely go back to do lower level content once i’m done with it. Although, I do enjoy riding around the world on my mount and seeing the sights instead of taking the fixed path to a new place. Something like this may interfere with my traveling across the world.

Thallian - August 11, 2008

Bucaw! I hope they don’t block you from content, but I much prefer it to the blizzard gankfest I’m used to. I leveled two chars to 60 on a pvp server and getting killed by someone 30 levels above gets old fast. For you, not for them. 😛 (Buck buck buck…)

lumio - August 11, 2008

yeah I think I am slowly leaning to core again, I was all up in arms not wanting to be on the “sissy” server, but when you look at it, its WAR and core seems to make more sense since the game was designed to be played core.

Gyshall - August 11, 2008

Good write up. I’ve been mulling this over for a while – I really hope they make some way of returning to lower tiers at higher levels.

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

@Lumio: No, not necessarily. The game was designed for both. It’s just this ONE mechanic that is -POSSIBLY- conflicting. The point of this blog entry is to hopefully raise awareness of the uncertainty the community has and maybe see if Mythic will give out some more information.

Shamutanti - August 11, 2008

Open RvR is ‘PvP’ I presume – that being, guys can be killed if they’re in your region and so forth.

Whilst Core RvR is…?

Wee bit confused by those >_<

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

Core is RvR only in certain areas.

Open RvR is RvR everywhere.

So the question people want to know is whether or not you chicken all the time in Open RvR or only sometime like in Core.

Shamutanti - August 11, 2008

Ah ha, I get ya. Sorry for being thick! :>

And now it all makes sense. Can see why this chicken to Open RvR thing could be interesting. That would cause so many problems if it’s ‘enter and be chickened’. ouch.

Is there a way to unchicken your self? (Re-enter your zone or something? )

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

As far as we know from officially released info, one would assume you simply turn off your RvR flag which can be done by leaving the RvR areas on a Core Server or typing something like /RvR. On a Open RvR server your flag can never be turned off so that is part of the clarification we’re seeking – does one have to leave the zone or just the area or what.

Hirokana - August 11, 2008

Thanks Keen. I was confused when someone on Warhammer Vault said that on core server you are not turned into chicken. So that’s clarification is a relief for me thank you much.

As for the “what is the answer” I guess we must wait till end of NDA or Make a big fuzz around it so some dev will try to clarify it. As for now they used to do something like that.

Gustavef - August 11, 2008

The Easiest mechanic I see is something like the following:

If you are over the level for the tier you won’t be changed into a chicken until you attack someone else who is correct level for the tier.

However if you are attacked by a lower level person (or more like a group of them) you are not.

Might need a few more checks in there. The idea is that your actions would force you to be a chicken. But someone else’s action can not force you to become a chicken.

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

Adding onto what you said Gustavef, the ideal for me would be:

– If you are over the level for the tier you won’t be changed into a chicken until you attack someone else who is correct level for the tier.

– Entering an enemy’s Chapter will Chicken you.

– Entering the RvR area (which is clearly shown on the map) will chicken you.

Jukasa - August 11, 2008

They designed all the realms be on the core ruleset and only cave in when the wow crowd wanted to have open rvr servers. There might be problems for you, but fun in core servers is top priority..

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

@Jukasa: The WoW crowd? Try DAOC crowd, Warhammer crowd, and general RvR crowd. And “giving in” is not really the right term to use. “Coming to their senses” would be a lot better.

Mythic’s approach to designing WAR has always been that anything they do is in the best interest of the game. Adding a Open RvR Ruleset (When the entire game was being redesigned to be more RvR-centric in 2007 mind you) was definitely in the best interest of the game.

Railith - August 11, 2008

Game mechanics change all the time in MMOs if the become a problem. I am sure Mythic would change the chicken mechanic if it is restricting content.

Snafzg - August 11, 2008

I’ve actually been leaning toward Core ruleset servers lately. I’m equally torn on not being able to attack a dwarf that is killing wolves right beside me and the fact that Public Quests are going to be a freakin’ nightmare if you have one or two people wanting to ruin your day. 😛

Knowing what I know about the game, I think there is more than sufficient RvR to go around on a Core server and if I can get over the fact that I’m not allowed to attack an unflagged player, then I’d be 100% happy and committed. Still though, that bothers me.

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

If I could get over that then I would be on a Core server too Snafzg. I just can’t get over the lack of being able to attack my enemy that I’m at war against – what the entire game is about.

Open RvR servers are definitely for me. It’s just this one little mechanic that could go either way. And for all I know I’m making a mountain out of a molehill here. As I said already I think some of Mark’s words have clarified it already.

Jukasa - August 11, 2008

You’ll have to forget about fun pve if you choose open rvr. There WILL be guilds, parties and random people who’ll ruin your PQ and gank you while you leave from your starting city.

The gankers (4/5 of the population?) will get their kick out of ruining your efforts and for what? I guess its worth it if you like ganking yourself and want to get things even.

Snafzg - August 11, 2008

@18 – Having played a PvP server in WoW, I can assure you, 80% of the population were not gankers. Maybe 10% at most (on Shattered Hand anyway).

Thallian - August 11, 2008

Knowing me , I’ll try both server types out but I think Open RVR may end up not appealing as much cuz more freedom for my enemies = less freedom to do what I want frequently. (Public quests sometimes) Hard decision all in all though cuz I like excitement and having to watch my back instead of the boredom of predictable mobs. Still there’s gonna be enough excitement in the rvr areas right? What percentage of the world is rvr and pvp enabled on a Core server? Certainly more than Wow on a “Normal” server right? Half the map at least if not more I hope.

007deadlysins - August 11, 2008

@Jukasa: Does that crystal ball you’re looking into which sees the entire future of WAR also show you lottery numbers? I need a quick and easy retirement plan.

Will the Open RvR server rules be perfect, NO but can they add an extra level of excitement to the game for players who want to battle their enemies in both PvE and RvR areas, I believe YES. There will always be gankers on servers (Open or Core) the point of Keen’s post (I think) was about how the chicken system will be on Open RvR servers or what we think of it and you do not seem to have an opinion on either. So Jukasa, why you posting the hate?

Dylan - August 11, 2008

Let’s look at the mechanic of only turning into a chicken if you are attacked. It seems ripe for exploit.

Suppose my Tier 2 guildmate is being attacked by a group of Tier 2 members of the opposing faction? I’d like to bring in my Tier 4 player to help my buddy. Of course no one will attack me intentionally. Does that mean I’m helpless to do anything but watch my buddy get slaughtered? If this is the case then they might as well prevent me from entering combat at all in a lower Tier.

Another idea would be that I’m considered “attacked” if anyone in my group is attacked. This would allow me to group up with my lower Tier buddy. But this is easily exploitable. My low Tier buddy runs into the middle of a group of the other faction and dances, spits, whatever until they attack him. Then I jump out of the bushes and wipe them out.

Is there another option I’m not seeing that allows combat under some conditions when in a lower Tier?

Rokk - August 11, 2008

I’m on the same page as you, Keen. I’m a little on the fence for how contrived the chicken mechanic may turn out to be in an open-rvr setting. Overall, part of having a high level character is going back to your previous accomplishments and finding out how easy they are now, completing quests that you had missed (tome unlocks), and helping your lowbie friends out (be it pvp or pve). As long as the chicken mechanic allows for those three things, than open-rvr here I come.

Bowman - August 11, 2008

My point of view on WARs lower tiers is, that their goal is to guide us through all the various gameplay elements in a fun and satisfactory manner, providing us with a feel of character- and know-how-progression. Tiers 1-3 aren’t meant to be dwelled on. They are the prologue to the eternal WAR in tier 4.

Of course there is lots of pastime outside of RvR to be found all over the lower tiers, even if I’ve capped, like ToK-unlocks, lairs and old fashioned exploration to name a few. There are 18 ‘lower tier’ zones, opposed to 12 tier 4 zones and the two capital cities. An estimated half of the launch-content is reserved for ‘endgame’ only! Also, MMORPGs of this kind are getting lots of ‘all-incluse’ content-patches, that generally add more endgame content, so I definitly don’t see any need to dwell on lower tiers. WARs endgame is vast and laid-out ‘horizontally’.

In my eyes there is no need for the open RvR ruleset, as well as the complications caused by it. The lower tiers are more restricted through gamedesign on purpose. The limitations nurrish a culture of consensual PvP. Hopefully Mythic can translate this to the open RvR ruleset servers.

FenixStryk - August 11, 2008

@Dylan: The point of the chickenization process is to prevent T4s from ganking lowbies. On a Core server you can hide behind your RvR flag and PvE, but on an Open server there’s not much a choice. You have to gimp the T4 guy somehow or he’ll gank all the lowbies.

The best way (IMO) to do this on an Open server is to force a player’s RvR flag OFF if that player enters a zone he has outleveled. That way he can quest, but he can’t gank even if he wanted to. He shouldn’t be there, so it’s not like he should have the ability to help others. You won’t be auto-flagged again until you go to a zone of your level.

The middle-of-the-road choice would be to have it so the player that enters a zone he outleveled won’t be chickenized until he purposely tries to use an attack or auto-attack on an enemy player. The little guys will probably try to gank him since he’s helpless, but if you’ve outleveled a zone, chances are you have a fairly large healthpool, enough to at least successfully Flee or something.

And of course there’s the zero tolerance chickenization-upon-arrival policy. If this is the case, Open servers won’t be too enjoyable.

Graktar - August 11, 2008

The server and zone structures of Core and Open ruleset servers are both exactly the same. Even though the rvr flag is ‘always on’ on Open servers, the line between PvE and RvR areas is still there. They could simply make it so that over-leveled people trying to cross into the PvE area of the opposing side are chickened while leaving the RvR areas chicken free. If you go into an RvR area you’re fair game, regardless of level.

Surely people who complain that not being able to attack an enemy player in a pve zone is jarring and game breaking will understand that not being able to attack a lower level player in an rvr zone is the same thing, so that should be fine on an open server.

:b

More reasonably, they could simply leave you confined to your side’s PvE area. If you leave that area you get chickened, but otherwise you’re fine. Open rvr aggressors would just have to deal with the fact that the PvE area might have high level ‘guards’.

Raegn - August 11, 2008

@Graktar:

“Even though the rvr flag is ‘always on’ on Open servers, the line between PvE and RvR areas is still there. They could simply make it so that over-leveled people trying to cross into the PvE area of the opposing side are chickened while leaving the RvR areas chicken free.”

That is the question we’re wondering about now. If that happens, it will effectively block people on open servers from completing ToK unlocks, exploring, etc.

Pseven - August 11, 2008

Let’s talk about the bigger problem…

I like Open RvR, immersion, if I see a dwarf fighting wolves, I’m going to go kill that Dwarf…

But… I see one of his high level dwarf friends coming chasing after me, I think oh shit and run… but wait…. HE POOFS INTO A CHICKEN!?!?

Come on… Talk about breaking the immersion… there are countless better ways to handle this, don’t change the model into a chicken.

dan - August 11, 2008

@Pseven

i have to admit i’m with you in the ridiculousness of the chicken. it reminds me when they announced the windwakers apperance (pretty sure it happend on april 1st) and my friends and i just started laughing at how absurd it was.. until we realized that it was for real.

however, its pretty funny none the less. and if it stops me from getting ganked everyonce in a while it might be kinda nice.

as for the rules and how it all works out i’m sure that they’ll do fine.

Shamutanti - August 11, 2008

It’s in the theme of Warhammer’s amusement/humour I feel. If it wasn’t a chicken it would be a snotling – or something similar 😛

Depends also how you rank your immersion and where the line goes. Little things like that would have me more involved within the game and more ‘feeling’ the ‘setting’.

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

@Pseven: For all we know that will only occur on CORE servers. In Open RvR, for all we know (the point of seeking clarification) no one’s high level friends can come along because they’ll be chickened and slaughtered at zone entrances when they enter tiers below their level.

Even if the chicken mechanic is implemented in the worst case scenario (turning into a chicken upon entering a lower tier) I think think it’s better than the Core rulset where your arch nemesis can stand next to you and not be attacked.

Thallian - August 11, 2008

@Fenixstryk “The best way (IMO) to do this on an Open server is to force a player’s RvR flag OFF if that player enters a zone he has outleveled. That way he can quest, but he can’t gank even if he wanted to. He shouldn’t be there, so it’s not like he should have the ability to help others. You won’t be auto-flagged again until you go to a zone of your level.” I agree this is a good solution, though it still would irk Keen and others here because its the same as being on a Core rules server.

If they could program the game to figure out if the person threw the first punch or not and then chicken based on that, that would be intelligent but no… I don’t expect that kind of intelligence out of game developers. (It not like its that hard to figure out)

Ramizeth - August 11, 2008

If you are out questing within your PvE zone the only reason why an enemy would be there would be for RvR, so his flag would be up. Only reason why you would go to the enemies PvE zone would be to RvR so you would have your flag up (it would go up automatically since you have to pass through an RvR zone to get there).

I can not see the benefits of an open server to that of a core.

Lonewind - August 11, 2008

Hmm, out of curiosity I did a quick search and found this old beta video of a player turning into a chicken – note that they only ran into an area and instantly turned into a chicken. No other players were near.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSq-Wj_PwAc

Also, some old commentary here:
http://www.gamersinfo.net/articles/1837-warhammer-age-of-reckoning

The quote:
“…I made my way to the booth on the last day of the show and met with Product Manager Eric Correll. He in turned tagged Associate Producer Carrie Gouskos and game designer Ryan Bernard, and we made our out to seek a quiet corner to talk. In this stage of game design,….

So, how are you preventing the higher level players from assisting or griefing in the low level areas?

“We turn you into a chicken,” was Eric’s dead-pan response.

Serious?

“Serious!” All three responded with grins on there faces and off we went into chicken-zerg flights of fancy.

“They can peck!” exclaimed Carrie.

“One point! One point!”

“We’ll have chicken achievement statistics.”

“A fried chicken title or drumstick badge for being killed as a chicken.”

But no, although you will be turned into a chicken if you enter an area that is ranked lower level than you, nothing else has been finalized. Not the defense or armor class or attack…not even the pecking damage. But still… imagine chicken against chicken battles led by low level fighters.

Warhammer Online is still a work in progress at this stage in time. Pushed back to an early 2008 launch to allow time for better polishing and balancing, the game is currently in closed beta. As evidenced by my chat with the team at PAX, there are some exciting battles to be had as well as pure silly fun…”

*****************
Personally, I don’t mind the mechanic, it will only encourage lower level’s to team up more with each other and avoid higher level players from “power leveling” their guildies.

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

@Ramizeth: Because eventually you start SHARING PvE areas with the enemy realms.

Bowman - August 11, 2008

Most people overestimate the ‘roleplaying’ aspect. The ‘chicken’ mechanic may be silly, but it’s this bold approach to the big task, that is making a pvp-centric game fun and approachable for everyone, that got me intrested in the first place. The tiers 1-3 aka the ‘leveling tiers’ aren’t to be dwelled on. They are kindergarten. Their goal is to bring us up to speed, about the lore, your specific class and all the different mechanics.

I firmly believe many people don’t understand the gamedesign or are willfully ignorant to the fact, that at least 1/2 of the games content at launch, is already ‘endgame’ content. Tier 4 is essentially open RvR, since over 80% of the zone is RvR autoflagged.

Again… WARs content at launch:

-18 leveling zones (tier 1-3)
-12 engame zones (tier 4)
-capital cities (mostly endgame content)

There is no need for the open RvR ruleset in the firstplace. But since there will be open RvR ruleset servers, I guess Mythic will come up with something in the spirit of core design. We are just lacking the specifics… as well as the open ruleset lacks testing. I still believe it’s not needed, since tier 4 is essentially ‘open RvR’ already. Core 4 life!

stompfoot - August 11, 2008

Alternative to chicken system:
Rather than converting you into a chicken, higher level players should be de-buffed so that their health and damage output is lowered to match the appropriate tier. This means you could help out in lower tiers without being over-powered, it would also mean no-one would psting you asking if you could run them through XXXXX instance, you would be able to do public quests w/o overpowering them and you could do quests in other zones that you might have missed, without it being in easy-mode.

FenixStryk - August 11, 2008

But I like the chicken… they just need to change what triggers it.

Keen
Keen - August 11, 2008

Server rulesets aren’t in question here at all guys. It’s the chicken mechanic and how it works in each. Both rulsets offer a different form of gameplay that everyone should acknowledge has the right to exist – whether we consider one our favorite or not is irrelevant. How this chicken mechanic works and operates in both is confusing and unclear – hence the clarification being sought.

gankatron - August 12, 2008

A little more info:

“Ten Ton Hammer: We love the idea of turning a player into a chicken if they go into an RvR zone too far below their level. What if you are just coming back to finish up some quests?

WAR Devs: There are two primary types of quests in RvR areas that a player could have as incomplete in their journal. The first type sends players to participate in scenarios, and players in the chicken rank range won’t have that scenario bracket available. These quests cannot be completed and will need to be abandoned. The second type sends players to the various Battlefield Objectives and Keeps, which they are certainly welcome to try to do as a chicken. Technically, they will still be able to complete the objective and the quest.”

RaegnED - August 12, 2008

@Gankatron: Thanks for posting that. That makes two official statements affirming the way the chicken mechanic is planned to work in the past few posts on this blog. I seriously hope they fix this. Sooner than block people, why couldn’t they just apply some kind of debuff for the scenarios? If theey can bolster you, some kind of debolster effect seems fitting.

*Sigh* Let’s hope that when open beta and release comes people express their disdain for this.

… unless of course things have changed since those statements were made. *Shakes fist at NDA*

Jukasa - August 12, 2008

21. There will be ganked on both servers, but they can only gank and grief you in open servers. That is the point.

Bartlebe - August 12, 2008

@Jukasa

PvP in WAR = leveling experience.

No stupid reknown or honor points. ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. What better way to level some than by going out and engaging in some PvP?

Sounds pretty perfect to me.

Jukasa - August 12, 2008

@Bartlebe,

Yes. I just prefer gaining my experience around the keeps and like to see dense team based battle instead of wild PQ ruining random ganking without any concentration of action.

Bartlebe - August 12, 2008

@Jukasa

As terrible as all of that is, in games that had open pvp in the past (like WoW) ganks were occasionally a problem but they certainly weren’t a game ruining one.

What you’re saying would truly be terrible if only it actually happened.

You’re going to die every now and then and it wont always be fair. Suck it up.

Keen
Keen - August 12, 2008

That’s something a lot of people fail to grasp Bartlebe. I think most people are stuck in the past thinking that RvR is there for killing people only and not an alternate form of progression.

As for that TTH Clarification, all that does is clarify open servers because it mentions “RVR AREAS” – What about PvE areas on a open server?

And Juskasa – you’re being such a fatalist! Why even worry the Open RvR server if you’re playing Core? Chillaxe 😛

lumio - August 12, 2008

keen thought you might find this bonus comic funny
http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php?t=32369

Kensei - August 12, 2008

the thing its that war 95% PVE content isn’t designed for for both side.
there are only 3-6 PQs in the whole game where order meets destruction.
Empire vs Chaos and elfs tiers have 0 content where order meets destruction.
the only zones where some PQs are shared are tier 1-3 Qwarf vs greenskins and again tier 4 have 0 shared content.
So going to a Open server becouse The shared content its a bad decision… man you will find 0 shared content in tier 4 and only 3-6 shared PQs in the whole game.

Also Open server will not hace the bolster mechanic that means less rvr beacouse everyone while wait to end lvls of his tiers to do something lvls 8-11 , 18-21 , 28-31 and 37-40. In Core ruleset you will find alot more Rvr becosue of the bolster and no roaming groups for gank pqs.

So you have:
Core ruleset(war is designed for this)
* no gank
* more rvr
* separate pve and pvp

Open ruleset:
*deserted rvr zones till end lvls
*no come back to low tiers to elp you friends(whops sorry guys i dinged to 22 y cant help you y you PQ lvl 20)
* ganking and griefing in PQs
* Zone swap camping

As i see it the only reason for open rvr servers is gank and the truht is tha “open” servers are more closed and restricted than core servers

Keen
Keen - August 12, 2008

Why are you trying to dissuade people from Open RvR? If you’re not going to play it that’s fine but why are some of you making it your life’s mission to convince people open rvr is bad?

@Kensei: Your pro/con list is completely off-base. You’re making assumptions based on assumptions based on assumptions of one chaos theory after the next.

This is about the CHICKEN MECHANIC people… it even has a big picture of a chicken and two puns. /sigh

Rick - August 12, 2008

I think people are making way too much out of this whole Open/Core thing.

If you want everyone flagged all the time, play Open. If you want it DAoC style, play Core. If you don’t want see an enemy you can’t attack, ever, play Open. If your RL means you have to be able to step away AFK every so often (kids, wife, dogs, job, porn), play Core.

Keen’s just looking for some clarification on the Chicken rule. Can we stick to that instead of hammering the dead horse pile again?

Gustavef - August 12, 2008

Well taking a quick look at the tiers, the chicken mechanic really is there to protect tiers 1 and 2. Tier 3 does have content up to level 40. Given what I have seen from the various pod casts and interviews, there may be very little of this “Open PvE area” that is chickenable.

I suspect that at tier 1 there isn’t any area that isn’t any joint PvE areas. Maybe a small area in Tier 2.

The concern is, will there be ToK unlocks unavailable after a certain level on the open RVR server that are still available on the Core server. I have faith that this will not be the case.

Gustavef - August 12, 2008

I though there are three types of areas in the world:

1) Open RvR areas that have all the keeps and battlefield objectives.
2) Joint PvE areas, zones shared by both sides but don’t have any direct RvR objectives.
3) “Safe” PvE areas. This is only for your race/faction.

The ratio of each changes though out the tiers. The distinction is that on a Open RvR server you are auto flagged in the Joint PvE areas. Where as on the Core it is an optional flag.

Cherub1m - August 12, 2008

The chicken system in the rvr area is there to prevent u from farmin the objects/keeps too. If you just think about this, you will have your answer.

Keen
Keen - August 12, 2008

@Cherub1m: That is crystal clear and obviously works for both rulesets. How the system works in the designated RvR areas isn’t in question. How the system works OUTSIDE of the RvR areas on Open RvR Rulesets given that RvR flags are ALWAYS on is the big mystery.

Gusto - August 12, 2008

You will only be turned into a chicken if you attack another player who is lower then you…geez it’s not rocket science here.

Keen
Keen - August 12, 2008

Where has that EVER been said in response to an open RvR server? Please, link me.

Gusto - August 12, 2008

Well….I…umm….don’t have a link nor have I read/heard that but it’s got to be that way. Why would they be so stupid to turn you into a chicken if you simply are going back to a lowbie area. Just turn you into a chicken if you act up 😉 It seems like that is what they will do, logical. You doing a PQ and a high lvl trys to mess with you POOF!!! Chicken and the you procede in the slaughter.

By the way Keen, although I hate to admit it, you were dead on with AoC. Let us just hope that WAR will shine. I’m getting a good vibe so far and I really think this chicken thing will be handled well.

Also I hope you will have some vids up with your commentary of WAR. I have never laughed so hard as I did with your comentary on the Demonologist “And I’m dead, frustration sets in and loading screen,” hahahahha

Keen
Keen - August 12, 2008

@Gusto: I agree, it would be totally stupid if someone got chickened simply for going to a lower tier … but unfortunately that’s the way many people are looking at it without clarification from Mythic. When the NDA Drops I’ll share some info I have from behind the scenes.

I’ll have several videos up when the NDA drops.

Raegn - August 12, 2008

So what you’re saying is…. you’re speculating and your comments are self-inflated hopeful thinking – just like the rest of us. Not to be rude but before you make a matter-of-fact statement, perhaps you consider appropriate context and wording.

That being said, it’s all good. No harm done 😀

Keen
Keen - August 12, 2008

@Raegn: Are your comments directed at me? If so I hope not because I stated from the beginning that the issue needed clarification and that we only have some words to go by from Mark Jacobs that could be taken either way. I believe I laid that out clearly in the blog entry.

I’m seeking clarification like everyone else. Although I have a few quotes that offer up more info they certainly don’t clarify the issue or I would have never made this blog post.

Sorcielle - August 13, 2008

What a strange post so close to the NDA drop… I see a lot of chickens with no heads and some serious pieces of sky about to come tumbling down..

Would much rather see a direct open vs. core discussion – because ultimately you can’t talk of one without the other…

SQUAWK !!

Cyndre - August 13, 2008

Guys… I would assume Keen knows the answer to this issue… He has been in beta for a long time. My guess is that he was simply looking to open a discussion of a topic that the community has been concerned about, and that has recieved very little clarification outside of the closed forums of the NDA protected beta. I for one, have been very curious and concerned about this mechanic.

It gets harder and harder to produce content for a blog subject to NDA as the development cycle draws to a close, and more information and content has been revealed behind closed doors.

While the open vs. core ruleset will be a topic that will never be debated to death, the chicken rules are very fuzzy, and a cause for concern for many players. Try not to cluck each other’s heads off, when all of this will be revealed to the fullest extent in a few days…

~Cyndre

Lonweind - August 13, 2008

@Gusto – please take a look at my ealier posting (#34) where it shows the player turning into a chicken without any combat taking place.

Sel - August 13, 2008

Whatever they do.. some People will find a way to abuse the system… maybe force a Highlevel to attack, have him go Chicken and then kill him….

Pseven - August 13, 2008

@ Cyndre

We don’t know the answer to the issue – There isn’t two different rule sets used for servers in closed beta.

It’s still quite up in the air on how they’re going to handle the chicken mechanic for Open RvR.

@ Sel

There’s no way to force a high level to attack… and the higher ranked person would be well aware of the consequences if he decided to inflict any damage.

The system WORKS, its designed to discourage ganking etc, though whether or not it restricts PvE content to those who have out grown it has yet to be determined.

Keen
Keen - August 13, 2008

I Do Not know the answer to this question. As pointed out, only Core servers are being tested in beta. I know how chickens work on Core servers. I know the basics of how Mythic says they’ll work on Open RvR servers… but not the clarifying details.

I posted the things I needed clarified:

* On a Open RvR server can I return to a lower level Tier and work on PvE, Tome Unlocks, and Quests I may have missed or will I be turned into a chicken?
* On a Open RvR server am I restricted purely to my level’s appropriate tier? If the answer is yes, then wouldn’t this essentially block my ability to help friends/guildmates/etc in the lower tiers with PvE?

Raegn - August 13, 2008

Nah, Keen. Was directed at Gusto. Sorry for the confusion.

Thallian - August 13, 2008

@Keen I think your questions are legit here and much of the WAR fanclub is wondering as well. I doubt we will figure much more out without clarification from Mythic. Have you asked them perchance?

Serenikill - August 13, 2008

Wow, I sort of saw this becoming a Core vs RvR but it got pretty bad. I agree with Keen, play what you want to play on don’t worry about everyone else.

Anyways, you can’t just make it so you get chickened when you attack an enemy. You have to make it so you get chickened when you enter any sort of combat with an enemy (which includes things like buffing/healing an ally fighting an enemy), this is where it gets tricky

Killallrogues - August 13, 2008

If your highlvl destruction what buisness would you have in a low lvl order zone other than to gank( I know somebody already mentioned this). In War you are going to have pvp/rvr lvls not just pve lvls this is going to work as a incentive to kill enemy players your lvl. That will not cut out ganking. For example until blizz comes up with some sort of chicken idea high lvl horde will continue to climb on top of buildings in darkshire and kill newbs for NO REASON. I think that players should only be chickened if they enter enemy low lvl rvr areas. A Dwarf should be able to go where ever he wants to in order zones. I predict if it is not this way at launch it will be in a few months. i have faith in mythic i played DAOC and it was awesome.

Pseven - August 13, 2008

@ Killallrogues

This isn’t like WoW – The conflicting factions start close together, if I’m Rank 40, and you’re Rank 15, you want help with some PvE quest, I come over to where you are, we’re going to run into some Order questing relatively close by.

I’ll have to stand there as a chicken and watch you die 😉

Jukasa - August 13, 2008

I guess I went too far, but still I dont like the prospect of open server people complaining that for example the PQs are too hard because of the other factions people running interference all the time and getting them nurfed by Mythic to appease the open server ers.

Keen
Keen - August 13, 2008

@Jukasa: Anyone complaining about the RvR on a Open RvR server should be ignored. If you play on an open rvr server EXPECT RvR. I wouldn’t want Mythic to make ANY changes to the game based on ONE server ruleset’s problems.

Bowman - August 13, 2008

NDA has to drop now! I need to hear the praise of countless WAR addicts. Can’t handle any dicussions anymore! Feed the hype please. I need it!

Btw. WAR has got foliage now! Tons of it! PRETTY!

Sphexish - August 13, 2008

Hm… The trigger needs to be a little more intentional.

Instead of being chickened simply by entering a lowbie zone, you should at least have to attack a low player to trigger it.

Hm.. but that has issues as well. A lowbie could run into a high-level zone and turn anyone who attacks him into a chicken. Also, there might be people triggering this accidentally with AoE attacks. And also, if 10 lowbies gang up on a high-level player, he couldn’t fight back.

Ugh. Every solution I can think of just brings another problem.

gankatron - August 13, 2008

Yeah just to reiterate, I do not think you will get turned into a chicken by attacking anyone; my impression is that would happen when you enter a much lower zone, whether you attacked anyone or not…

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