The Goblin in the Tuxedo: Why WAR and AoC are awesome

I want to share with you all a post from the World of Warcraft forums. The post is titled “The Goblin in the Tuxedo“. It is one of the most well written and level headed posts to ever come out of those forums and it deserves to be linked to and read elsewhere. In this post the author discusses Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning and Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures and compares their PvP gameplay with what is currently available and planned in World of Warcraft.

This post sums up the biggest reasons why I quit WoW and it shows exactly why I will be playing both AoC and WAR. You can choose to read the article however you want; whether you’re going to see it for what WoW lacks or what AoC and WAR have to offer. Personally, I chose to read it as a great explanation of why WAR and AoC are awesome.

Rarely do I come across someone else who just “gets it”.  I teared up a little while reading it.  (Okay, not really… really) To read the full post read more.

Author: Barbryn, Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6136325779&sid=1&pageNo=1

In the wake of the Season 4 ratings announcement, a couple of things have become clear. One, that Arena will remain the source of the best PvP gear in the game. Two, that Blizzard is doing what they can to try to shape it into a “viable eSports platform” (to quote a recent developer interview). Clearly, the Arena will remain the focus of PvP for the indefinite future.

Before the release of the Burning Crusade at the start of 2007, PvP in WoW referred to skirmishes in the open world and organized encounters in instanced maps called battlegrounds. World PvP could mean anything, from a level 60 killing a lower-level character to a chance encounter between level 60s in a high-level zone that escalated to a mini-war as each side called in more friends. A fundamental element of world PvP is that it was random, unpredictable, and often unfair–leading to stacked retaliation on the part of the victim through his friends or even other strangers in the zone. On a PvP server, these battles could become exciting and dynamic, lasting for hours (and the rivalries created could last indefinitely afterward).

Battlegrounds were an organized method of getting two factions together to fight in large-scale battles. The epitome of this was the raid-level battleground, Alterac Valley. The original versions of this map could last for hours or even days, with the tide of the battle moving back and forth. Alterac Valley used to be considered so important that people would wait in queue for hours, and if they were in an instance when the queue popped, their party members would understand if they left. The battleground’s playtime has been significantly shortened since then, but its scale remains.

Today, while battlegrounds and world PvP do exist, PvP is now encompassed by the Arena. Introduced in the Burning Crusade expansion, it consists of rated duels within small, instanced maps. After the expansion, it became clear that certain class combinations were superior to others, and that many classes had significant strengths in some formats. Over the course of three seasons of Arena, the scale of PvP has been reduced to cookie-cutter class compositions running around a pillar, the only differences between teams being the names over their heads. The funneling of MMORPG classes of different races and specs into small instances for the purposes of eSport has caused a large amount of controversy when it comes to balance, particularly for classes that have struggled to achieve the success of other classes based on representation statistics available online. There is also a contingent of people who prefer large-scale warfare on an MMO-scale, since this is, after all, an MMO based on a well-known franchise of real-time strategy games.

The problems that arise from running MMO classes through staged duels can be summed up as follows:

# Because classes are based on different roles due to their PvE roots, some classes don’t survive when matched up against classes whose role is stronger in a small-scale PvP setting. Certain classes don’t hold up well in the Arena environment itself, such as hunters and mages. Large numbers of players are enduring an uphill battle that other players don’t have to face.

# Race choice, originally an aesthetic decision with special abilities to add flavor to your character, suddenly become major decisions that can determine how far you can push through the upper echelons of Arena battle.

# Classes are able to choose different specs of talents that alter the way they are played, but in the Arena, only certain specs have viability in a small-scale PvP setting (regardless of how fun that spec is for the player).

# Balance changes for the Arena affect other areas of the game. For instance, Blizzard tested a change to the Life Tap mechanic of warlocks that would have significantly altered their itemization requirements and playstyle in a PvE setting. Only when warlock Arena representation began to recede during testing did Blizzard abandon the change. Shamanistic Rage was changed into a physical effect so that it could not be dispelled by enemy players, but the duration was halved, affecting enhancement shamans in PvE. Neither are (or would have been) game-breaking changes, but they are noticed and resented by players not participating in the Arena.

# Establishing instanced duels as the top form of PvP in the game ignores three continents of open land already populated by both factions. World PvP is significantly diminished. The scale of PvP is reduced to five people waiting around a goblin in a tuxedo.

# Certain professions are locked out of the Arena because they are considered overpowered in a rated, small-scale setting (many engineering items, for example). However, other professions like enchanting or blacksmithing–which can produce a stun-proccing mace–are allowed.

# Arenas ignore all established lore. There is no regard for faction or setting. Members of the Alliance fight other members of the Alliance undisturbed in the ruins of Lordaeron, for example–an impossible situation.

# Cheating to ensure a high rating, and selling ratings to undermine the ratings system.

# Community elitism based around Arena ratings.
This year, two competing MMOs are set to be released that have a lot to offer large-scale PvPers. Because of its recent PvP stress test, Age of Conan is currently the most talked-about, and later this year, we will see the release of Warhammer Online, perhaps WoW’s biggest challenger given the history of Warcraft itself (the first game was originally supposed to be a Warhammer game). Both of these new MMOs will encourage large-scale world PvP in ways WoW does not–city sieges, realm control, ransacking, trophies, conquering towns, and huge rewards for killing enemy leaders. Guilds in Age of Conan can build their own fortresses and battle against other guilds. Warhammer features a tier-based level of control for a realm that leads to outright invasion of the enemy capital, and Mythic has brought back keeps from Dark Age of Camelot. Keeps are NPC-guarded forts that players can fight over, complete with siege weapons and bosses. Guilds can claim the keeps and place their tabard for rewards, so these locations act like miniature battlegrounds taking place day and night in the game world.

Because of Blizzard’s focus on smaller-scale battles, the Arena has potentially pushed WoW into a corner when its larger-scale competitors are released to fill the niche that Blizzard has left unaddressed. The problem will manifest when players are able compare a typical evening of PvP activity between WoW and other MMOs and find WoW lacking. Age of Conan players will be leading large-scale sieges on enemy fortresses using group formations to provide buffs, while WoW players will be waiting around a goblin in a tuxedo. Warhammer players will position their tanks in keep entrances to block out invaders while their teammates dump hot oil from above, while WoW players will be waiting around a goblin in a tuxedo. The worlds of the others games will be alive and full of activity, compared to WoW in which most PvP is taking place in instances, and much of the world is empty except for those who are leveling, ganking lower-level players, or doing daily quests.

The much larger scale of battle in Warhammer will mean your choice of class and specialization will be less of a factor in determining your ability to contribute to the war effort (in fact, everything you do including PvE quests will contribute victory points to your realm), because the dynamics of a large battle mean anyone can find a fun, useful role. This remains true in WoW battlegrounds, where a shadow priest, balance druid, or enhancement shaman who would normally have difficulty in the Arena is able to have a good time in Alterac Valley. Unfortunately, the Arena has compartmentalized talent specifications into “PvE spec,” “PvP spec,” “utility spec,” and so on.

Competitors are also implementing features to address common player problems. For example, dual-targeting was recently added to Warhammer which means you can have a hostile target and a friendly target selected simultaneously, reducing the targeting work that some classes must do in large-scale combat such as healers (and some spells will utilize both targets). Guild control is improved to make it not a chore to run one, and guilds can even form named alliances with each other. WoW still ships with many of the same interfaces and controls it had in 2004, to the point that addons exist to replace not just unit frames, but the quest log, inventory, profession dialogs, and more. It all makes Blizzard look slow and conservative when it comes to keeping up to date with the playerbase and its needs. Warhammer will ship with 20 scenarios (instanced PvP zones equivalent to battlegrounds for players who want a quick PvP game), and starting at level 1, a player can just click a button in the interface to enter a queue. In four years, Blizzard has only released four battlegrounds. The Arena runs just three maps.

WoW’s reduction of PvP scale has given its competitors a huge opportunity to attract players hungering for PvP on a scale befitting a massively-multiplayer online game. Blizzard has given no indication that the Arena will be de-prioritized in the coming expansion pack, and given developer statements on eSports, it is likely to remain as-is. While the other MMOs will reward players for forming armies, taking cities, and collecting enemy heads as trophies, WoW will demand an army of five members maximum of a particular group composition waiting around a goblin in a tuxedo. Blizzard has decided that this is the route they wish to take with the game to provide for an eSports platform. The exact intended goal is unclear. Televised battles on Korean television? Worldwide tournaments? Is it worth the sacrifice of scale in exchange for pointless, composition-influenced duels?

The information released so far about the next WoW expansion doesn’t offer much in the way of a response to these new competitors. The expansion will offer 10 more levels and a new battleground that is not instanced like the others, which comes off as a tacit admission that the playerbase is wanting more large-scale PvP in the open world. No other info has been released about the new battleground’s objectives or mechanics beyond the existence of siege weapons. Unfortunately, a level 70+, expansion-only battleground is not going to compare to the integrated, tier-based RvR system of Warhammer. Like other battlegrounds, it will be another area in which players are funneled out of the world and collected in a controlled location that has no effect on the world outside of victory buffs, and the Arena will continue to be the source of the best PvP gear, legitimizing it as the “true” PvP game-within-the-game.

The demand for MMO PvP has evolved toward larger scale fights taking advantage of the existence of thousands of players in an online world, but WoW has moved in the opposite direction in pursuit of a reduced-scale eSports platform, hurting non-instanced PvP and violating the original spirit of the Warcraft franchise which was once a very brutal story of “two factions battling for dominance.” Just how many players leave WoW for the dynamic battlefields of Age of Conan and Warhammer will indicate how much of the WoW playerbase is disappointed in its current direction, and how well its competitors fulfill their needs. I personally believe WoW is in trouble, having pushed itself into a corner with the year-long focus on the Arenas and leaving an opening for competitors to snatch up frustrated WoW PvPers who are hungry for huge, lore-based battles. Speaking for myself, watching videos about Warhammer’s player-controlled keeps already looks more fun than any WoW battleground I’ve ever been in, and I’m excited to level a goblin shaman and ransack dwarven cities…

  • Here here, for many of the same reasons as the above poster I too left WoW. I’m tired of being thrown into instance combat, I’m tired of having to have the best gear in order to be good rather than relying on skill.

    So many of the games in the past started a wonderful idea of PvP. I was so sad when I discovered WoW was not a PvP game but a PvE “treadmill” as you call it Keen. I played for about 3 years, had 3 lvl 70s and raided a lot. My point: I’m more of a PvP’er who likes to raid once in a while for the experience and fun, not the loot.

    I hope AoC and Warhammer can fill my blood lust that has been boiling inside me after the years of dull, sad, repetition.

  • That has to be the most intelligent thing the WoW forums have produced in 3 years. Bravo!

  • I very much agree… PvP isn’t what most players came to WoW for, and being shoved into it just to get the gear we need is offputting (to say the least). Blizz is taking the easy way out in pursuing user-created content, and *thumbs down* to that.

  • In another thread, Drysc outright denies that Blizzard is unbalancing the game with arenas and focusing on that mechanic too much, which just made me laugh. Yeah, they can point to 2.4 and the upcoming expansion all they like, but when the best gear is through arenas, it’s a deliberate ploy to funnel people into that crappy PvP setting. I hate feeling forced to do any ONE thing to obtain the best gear, and I hate even more when devs nerf classes just because they want the arena PvP to be balanced at the expense of the rest of the game.

  • Yea, best thing i’ve read on those forums ever!

    I think that AOC will be better than War tho.
    Ok the idea is good but when I look at the vids I just can’t be excited about it. And the fact that it’s made by EA… Can’t expect much but some good ideas

  • Meh, you just convinced me to preorder WHO. Can’t say I trust Mythic, but… these things you mentioned do sound good.

    I’ll be disappointed if AoC doesn’t work out, but, it’s a crap shoot these days.

    I think Blizzard has turned into the fat cat sitting on the pillows on the sofa. Seriously, it seems that they like to do as little work as possible. With the money they rake in, subscribers should be getting a HECK of a lot more. Just one reason I quit: new content consists of new gear grinds and new rep grinds. Yay.

  • I think all player’s of mmo’s eventually come to the stage in the game where they ask them self’s “what is the meaning of life” or reason for this online life….? Barbryn is a prophet!!! Wow players: small dark closets to wear their tier5 umm err tier8? gear. AoC & War players, they will have the world!!!

  • wow, what a great article. i whole heartedly agree with the article.
    a few questions to ask keen and graev.
    first, this one i really wanted to ask, i listened to your podcast this morning and you said you migh potentially play on an RP server? you guys ave been around mmo’s far too long to be playing on RP servers. cmon u guys cant be serious about an RP server for conan, can you?
    second, how do u guys plan on balancing AoC and WAR? wont that be kinda tough?

  • @Meatgazer: Hmm.. I don’t think we said RP. PvE and PvP are the two we’re debating between. As for balancing AoC and WAR it won’t happen unless a miracle occurs. Being completely blunt here, AoC is a tide-me-over. We were actually planning to skip AoC altogether until WAR was pushed back to the end of this year. But we are always open to the possibilities that AoC will hook us and if that happens.. god help us. 😉

  • that post was…beautiful *tear*. barbryn hit the nail on the head. arena is the bludgeon that WoW is using to repeatedly beat itself into submission. its as if they hav absolutely no idea wat players want or simply dont care. i believe that unless WoW actually puts some effort in and makes some changes really fast it is doomed to fall into the background while AoC and WAR rise to the top.

    at least they lasted for a while, uve got to give them credit for that.

  • Easily the best post on the Wow forums so far. I quit Wow because of the exact reasons posted above. I’m pretty stoked about AOC and looking forward to playing the Beta when i get home tonight.

    Great find Keen!

  • I was surprised at the amount of positive replies to the post, and I’m grateful it was reposted it here. I was inspired by the crowds of Arena-geared players standing silently around the goblin NPCs as though they were waiting at the DMV. After four years of an MMO that originally shook the genre to its core, it struck me as surprisingly dull and backwards.

  • Keep up the good work btw. And even if AOC doesn’t work out, there is always WAR to look forward to.

  • I have played wow some three years and that has to be the end of that. Never again..

    Got a pre-order of AoC and hope that will be fun because War looks just like another wow clone with the same graphics and gameplay.

    I think war should have a lot darker look to it than this current super coloured happy happy cartoon look. It does not look like my vision from back when I played the tabletop game 🙁

  • The reason the poster gave for War and Aoc awesomeness are all based around pvp.

    For those of us who not only dislike, but despise PvP, I wonder how their good thier PvE is going to be.

  • Dont think their is much PVE stuff in War but there is quite a bit in AoC.

    Btw to create a guild city in AoC Currently requires 24 members according to a friend in beta.

  • I fully agree with the critisism towards W0W and the way it´s been going these last years. Forced to grind PvP in order to be able to grind in PvP for even better gear, because that´s the only thing left to when you are lvl70… oh there´s always the option of doing the same daily´s SEVEN DAYS A WEEK!!! I put my money on AoC.. seems like the only game worth the “RPG” part of MMORPG. Hopefully AoC players won´t have to deal with those sugar-high kids running around in circles all the time.

    See you all in Hyboria, the world of high adventure! 🙂

    /MonDieu (I´m swedish, not french)

  • Holy SHIT !!! Finaly someone that understands!!!!
    Im 14 years old, and i started MMOs with Dark Age of Camelot when i was like 8 (Best game in the World IMO, Well it was back than)

    And i have 3 70s on wow, and i am Bored SHITLESS of that game, it was fun pre BC, and now finaly someone comes along and knows how it is, im used to DAoC where i had 50 man raids on keeps and such, that was my fkn fun button right there, i had so much fun on that game, i cryed basically when it was over and i left the game because it got boring and no one played it, than i started WoW which was fun at first, But gets boring after meaningless grinds for Gear in WSG, AB,EoTS,AV and i really dont like the arenas its the same thing everytime, (Basically)

    So im really looing forward to the release of AoC and WHO, hopefully i can get back to the real fun and kick some ass in some RvR, and specially with the Seige, it should be a blast 🙂

    Thanks for posting this Keen (lol was just watching your AoC vids than i saw a post to more vids on youtube, and clicked it and this popped up and i read it and it really has made me not like WoW at all, and basically pumped for all the PvP/RvR in AoC and WHO)

  • gosu, i must say i liked alot of that post. i replied with an epic reply on the original thread and felt better lol. i really hope aoc works out as well, although i am sad that there are locked instances and not a fully free for all world. i’m not sure why every game keeps making locked instances, they totally take away from community aspect of the games and really ruin world pvp in my eyes(omg zone in zone in x enemy is coming we must hide inside the instance) lol so bad but so true 8( anyways 1 more day till i can play something fresh in the beta, rejoice!

  • BINGO!!! That hit the nail on the head. My wife and I recently left WOW for the 2nd time, and I don’t think we will be back. Both of us feel they really are just content counting the money rolling in. For the amount of money they receive, you would think they could do so much more with WOW than they do. It seems to us that they are content just to provide “more of the same”. So for your $40-50 for the new expansion you get more stuff to grind, another 10 levels, and more gear that had new stats, but is just recolored old gear. Why not expand rather than just move the carrot further out ? What about going back in and making the areas that never see a soul (Silithus anyone ?) viable again ? How about flying mounts in Azeroth, player housing, siege warfare, guild halls, etc ? Nope, probably will never happen. Its just too easy to rake in the money and produce the same old thing, nerf/mod classes to make them all “equal” in arenas. At times it makes me want to throw my old mud back up to have something fun to play and provide good content to those who want to play there.

    As far as AoC and WAR, I’m both leary and excited. I’d love to give both of them a shot, but after being burned on one MMO and becoming bored with others, I’m pretty skeptical about dropping 2 x $50 on any game, plus subscription fees to try a game out. I’m to the point now that I tend to give a game 6months to a year to get themselves straightened out, see what the true direction they are going to, before I spend a dime on it. Or, in my case, if they bomb, hope that SOE ends up buying them up so I can play on Station Pass..

  • Well written article…I guess we all joined WoW because we loved the francise but Blizzard was more focused on the cash than the War between Horde and Alliance.I left the game almost after a year when open world PvP died.Both Warhammer and AoC will do fine but I`m more for warhammer 🙂

  • I like the way this guy explains things that people should have figured out a while ago but probably haven’t bothered to think about. Down with goblins in tuxedos who make you wait to play canned games (does soemthing smell in here?) and up with the colossal carnage 🙂

  • Great Post. I’ve been playing wow for 2 years, and after 3 lvl 70 toons I’ve come to the point where WOW is no longer fun. Arena is garbage and ruined pvp, many players know this. What many people don’t understand is the reasoning behind their decision to make arena the pvp flavor of choice. Pre arena world pvp raids were extremely taxing on servers. 100 players raiding Ironforge at peak playing times caused servers to repeatedly crash. Server crashes pissed people off which led to cancelations which led to less money for blizz. Instances are more smooth. Not making excuses because with the amount of loot blizz rakes in, they could easily afford to upgrade their systems. They just…. don’t…

    Personally I can’t wait for AOC and WAR. I’m a little more stoked about AOC being a Robert E Howard fan but as long as neither one forces me to grind for “random loot” drops, I will be fine.

  • @Meatgazer
    lol, “you guys have play’d mmo’s FAR TO LONG to be playing on an RP server” ??? #1 I dont think Keen or Graev have ever stated an interest for RP, even though AoC is billed as an mmoRPg. #2 Many and most of your old timers in online games all came from RP roots. #3 Any MMo out there that has any long lasting appeal has been an mmorpg.. not loosing their appeal till the FPS/ nonRP players have shown up and over populated the games and turned them into nothing more than grinding mindless raid mills. Read Barbryn post once more, even though RP is not mentioned, its all about just that. when gamers long for the good OLD days of friends and fun times, even though they may not want to admit it……

  • Wow, this was interesting. 🙂

    When features are “tacked on” to a game rather than built in from the start, they never end up working well. For the longest time PvP wasn’t even going to be a part of WoW, so the version it eventually ended up with left much to be desired IMO.

  • Excellent post! How many replies consisted of just “QQ” or “L2P”? I try to avoid the official forums at all times so I’m glad that you re-posted his message here.
    I’ve recently started playing EQ2 and one thing struck me right off the bat. Here’s a game with not near the subscription numbers of WoW and yet within very little play time manages to impress upon you how truly shallow WoW is. Where do they put all those millions and millions of dollars? Silly question I know.
    I personally think EQ2 and LOTRO are better games. The adage of bigger not always being better is very true, even in the MMO market.
    I mentioned to a friend, who still plays WoW, the other day that it seems to me as if the game is going through a self-induced identity crisis. Do they honestly think that putting all their focus on the arenas while the other 92% of the playerbase get the leftovers is a good idea? Evidently so. I think they are in for a rude awakening once AoC and WAR get going.

  • Great post. I agree completely that the eSport will kill WoW dead.

    I don’t agree with the author’s premise, however, he is comparing an existing game with two hypothetical, best-case scenarios. Funcom and Mythic can lose this fight if they take their awesome ideas and turn them into crap — something that seems to be happening to AoC already. instance nightmare anyone?

    Personally, I’m hoping for WAR. I’ve been hoping for a massive-scale-open PvP game for a long time, since the mudding days. The only game that came close, but not close enough, was DAoC. But DAoC got bogged down with stupid expansions and new stupid classes, and the leveling grind didn’t appeal to me.

    I’d like to see a game where the stretch from level 1 to level cap isn’t a pointless waste of time (like it is in WoW). Where my actions and playtime actually matter. In WoW, in the end, it doesn’t matter what you did leveling up, what matters is: How fast can you start grinding Arena points or Honor to get your PvP gear. Forget instances, noone goes there anymore, what’s the point?

    Maybe i’m having too high hopes, but from what it sounds, WAR will be my savior.