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	<title>Comments on: Call of Duty MMO? Half a billion to beat WoW?  Ludicrous!</title>
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	<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841</link>
	<description>Keen and Graev bring you their latest PC/Console views, Online Adventures, and more from a unique and refreshing perspective.</description>
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		<title>By: Shut Up We&#8217;re Talking #22 &#171; The Ancient Gaming Noob</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-7350</link>
		<dc:creator>Shut Up We&#8217;re Talking #22 &#171; The Ancient Gaming Noob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-7350</guid>
		<description>[...] The $500 Million Question - We examine Bobby Kotick&#8217;s motives for his outlandish statements and moan about the influence of big money on gaming (that last bit is mostly me) - from Keen &amp; Graev [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The $500 Million Question &#8211; We examine Bobby Kotick&#8217;s motives for his outlandish statements and moan about the influence of big money on gaming (that last bit is mostly me) &#8211; from Keen &amp; Graev [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Snafzg</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6957</link>
		<dc:creator>Snafzg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6957</guid>
		<description>By RS and MGS, I mean the fairly adaptive NPC AI and the squad- and mission-based scenarios...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By RS and MGS, I mean the fairly adaptive NPC AI and the squad- and mission-based scenarios&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Snafzg</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6956</link>
		<dc:creator>Snafzg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6956</guid>
		<description>Agreed, the PvE elements would be difficult or nearly impossible to implement but from what I remember of the Rainbow Six and more recent Metal Gear games, it might be doable.

I don&#039;t really think a level-up approach would work, but refining a bit of your characters skills and unlocking new gear is still possible. The main thing that will improve as you play is YOUR actual skill at the game, just like in most FPS&#039;.

I&#039;m not saying an MMOFPS based on CoD would be easy. Obviously it isn&#039;t since we&#039;ve yet to see a successful MMOFPS on the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, the PvE elements would be difficult or nearly impossible to implement but from what I remember of the Rainbow Six and more recent Metal Gear games, it might be doable.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really think a level-up approach would work, but refining a bit of your characters skills and unlocking new gear is still possible. The main thing that will improve as you play is YOUR actual skill at the game, just like in most FPS&#8217;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying an MMOFPS based on CoD would be easy. Obviously it isn&#8217;t since we&#8217;ve yet to see a successful MMOFPS on the market.</p>
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		<title>By: michael, St Erroneous</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6950</link>
		<dc:creator>michael, St Erroneous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6950</guid>
		<description>@Snafzg: only if they try to import PvE MMORPG concepts into an FPS framework. The expectations that online FPSs will be comprehensively PvP and fast-paced would make levering the current painful NPC PvE mechanics into an FPS almost laughable. Respawn 30 times, as your squad shoot megamech Zed with their rocket launchers!

Consider - what is a BF2142 Titan assault but a climactic end-of-level boss battle? No NPCs, no PvE, just clever scenarios for the players to interact within.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Snafzg: only if they try to import PvE MMORPG concepts into an FPS framework. The expectations that online FPSs will be comprehensively PvP and fast-paced would make levering the current painful NPC PvE mechanics into an FPS almost laughable. Respawn 30 times, as your squad shoot megamech Zed with their rocket launchers!</p>
<p>Consider &#8211; what is a BF2142 Titan assault but a climactic end-of-level boss battle? No NPCs, no PvE, just clever scenarios for the players to interact within.</p>
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		<title>By: Snafzg</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6935</link>
		<dc:creator>Snafzg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6935</guid>
		<description>Sticking with the modern, realistic approach in an MMOFPS would definitely be tough to do in terms of bosses and such, but I think you could easily dip into the sci-fi pool for ideas.

Alien invasions, machine AI, nuclear experiments gone wrong... Those concepts aren&#039;t necessarily as fantastical as dragons, ghoulies, and golems.

The mechanics would be tougher to work out. I don&#039;t think you could really follow the traditional MMORPG progression but you could mimic aspects of it, like in Oblivion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sticking with the modern, realistic approach in an MMOFPS would definitely be tough to do in terms of bosses and such, but I think you could easily dip into the sci-fi pool for ideas.</p>
<p>Alien invasions, machine AI, nuclear experiments gone wrong&#8230; Those concepts aren&#8217;t necessarily as fantastical as dragons, ghoulies, and golems.</p>
<p>The mechanics would be tougher to work out. I don&#8217;t think you could really follow the traditional MMORPG progression but you could mimic aspects of it, like in Oblivion.</p>
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		<title>By: Keen</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6933</link>
		<dc:creator>Keen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6933</guid>
		<description>One would hope that parallel development is really all they&#039;re after, but listening to their CEO&#039;s talk about &quot;a new way of gaming&quot; and the profit obtainable by monetizing such a &quot;larger market&quot; is really quite troubling.  I&#039;ll try and have faith in the Battlefield franchise.

The CoD franchise though worries me even more.  The CEO is talking about the game&#039;s natural evolution.  Talking about evolving a series in to something else without ever mentioning parallel development - ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One would hope that parallel development is really all they&#8217;re after, but listening to their CEO&#8217;s talk about &#8220;a new way of gaming&#8221; and the profit obtainable by monetizing such a &#8220;larger market&#8221; is really quite troubling.  I&#8217;ll try and have faith in the Battlefield franchise.</p>
<p>The CoD franchise though worries me even more.  The CEO is talking about the game&#8217;s natural evolution.  Talking about evolving a series in to something else without ever mentioning parallel development &#8211; ugh.</p>
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		<title>By: michael, St Erroneous</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6932</link>
		<dc:creator>michael, St Erroneous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 23:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6932</guid>
		<description>@Keen: there is a conventional Battlefield 3 sequel in development in parallel with the Battlefield Heroes game and the console Bad Company game. They&#039;re diversifying the franchise, not diverting it wholesale down the Wii/TF2 road.

I doubt that MMOFPSs will conform to the existing MUD/MMORPG conventions. The opening generations of such games are much more likely to simply be an extended lobby system, instanced maps, with a regional factional overmap, and short-term cyclic resets. Ie, pretty much the current game BF2/2142 mechanics with some logic about the map queue, and score bonuses for the winning faction.

Moving an FPS to a fully persistent non-instanced world requires the solving of Horrible Scaling Issues and would, as you say, probably change the game experience into something the potential target audience would not be interested in playing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Keen: there is a conventional Battlefield 3 sequel in development in parallel with the Battlefield Heroes game and the console Bad Company game. They&#8217;re diversifying the franchise, not diverting it wholesale down the Wii/TF2 road.</p>
<p>I doubt that MMOFPSs will conform to the existing MUD/MMORPG conventions. The opening generations of such games are much more likely to simply be an extended lobby system, instanced maps, with a regional factional overmap, and short-term cyclic resets. Ie, pretty much the current game BF2/2142 mechanics with some logic about the map queue, and score bonuses for the winning faction.</p>
<p>Moving an FPS to a fully persistent non-instanced world requires the solving of Horrible Scaling Issues and would, as you say, probably change the game experience into something the potential target audience would not be interested in playing.</p>
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		<title>By: Keen</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6929</link>
		<dc:creator>Keen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6929</guid>
		<description>I agree with Phil that FFXI was doable because it was a fantasy rpg setting to begin with.  Taking the realism and &quot;serious&quot; nature of CoD (which hasn&#039;t progressed beyond modern day) and making a mmo would be difficult - doable - but difficult.  And it would be departing greatly from their current model to such a degree that a great majority of the people playing CoD games wouldn&#039;t be interested.

To illustrate my point, the new Battlefield game looks downright dumb to me.  BF2142 was a great step in the evolution of the BF series.  Taking the ideas of this new Battlefield Heroes game (Ideas like the persistent struggle) and adding them to the original model would be an incredible experience.  But no, they want to try their &quot;business model&quot; wacky way of thinking.  Such a waste.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Phil that FFXI was doable because it was a fantasy rpg setting to begin with.  Taking the realism and &#8220;serious&#8221; nature of CoD (which hasn&#8217;t progressed beyond modern day) and making a mmo would be difficult &#8211; doable &#8211; but difficult.  And it would be departing greatly from their current model to such a degree that a great majority of the people playing CoD games wouldn&#8217;t be interested.</p>
<p>To illustrate my point, the new Battlefield game looks downright dumb to me.  BF2142 was a great step in the evolution of the BF series.  Taking the ideas of this new Battlefield Heroes game (Ideas like the persistent struggle) and adding them to the original model would be an incredible experience.  But no, they want to try their &#8220;business model&#8221; wacky way of thinking.  Such a waste.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6928</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6928</guid>
		<description>@Snafzg

Yep, it was Square Enix.  FFXI was successful because its fantasy based (and a great game btw).  You could have an alien pop out of the sky to defeat, you can have dragons, demons, monsters, humans, anything.  You can do anything because its fantasy.  Gear, actions, and the look of everything can be just as varied.  I truely believe the &quot;varied&quot; is what makes a good MMO because it appeals to everyone.  I just don&#039;t see how CoD can do anything other than work with all aspects of the war genre which isn&#039;t so broad.  That&#039;s why I feel its more like PotBS.  You have a ship, you have trade, you have PvP.  How far can you take it and still stay in the pirate genre?

It&#039;s quite funny how these game studios all seem to be saying, &quot;We have a good game, lets go online and call it an MMO.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Snafzg</p>
<p>Yep, it was Square Enix.  FFXI was successful because its fantasy based (and a great game btw).  You could have an alien pop out of the sky to defeat, you can have dragons, demons, monsters, humans, anything.  You can do anything because its fantasy.  Gear, actions, and the look of everything can be just as varied.  I truely believe the &#8220;varied&#8221; is what makes a good MMO because it appeals to everyone.  I just don&#8217;t see how CoD can do anything other than work with all aspects of the war genre which isn&#8217;t so broad.  That&#8217;s why I feel its more like PotBS.  You have a ship, you have trade, you have PvP.  How far can you take it and still stay in the pirate genre?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite funny how these game studios all seem to be saying, &#8220;We have a good game, lets go online and call it an MMO.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Snafzg</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841&#038;cpage=1#comment-6927</link>
		<dc:creator>Snafzg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=841#comment-6927</guid>
		<description>Well, Square (was it Square?) managed to &quot;progress&quot; their Final Fantasy series into a somewhat successful MMORPG that stands alone from the rest of the series. I think it could be done without affecting the CoD series too badly...

There&#039;s also another way to hybridize the MMO income model to traditional video games.  Take for instance, Team Fortress 2 in the Steam network.

All you really need to do is:

1) Make a game and charge people $XX.XX to play it

2) Dedicate a smallish team to produce quarterly update patches introducing new content, bug fixes, etc. just like traditional MMORPGs do and charge people $XX.XX / 4 per update

3) Continue to support your game community and earn additional cash every quarter.

4) If people quit buying your updates re-evaluate your situation... are people not buying the updates because they suck or because they&#039;ve moved on to something better?

So many traditional console or PC games come out as one-shots and the developers fail to offer continued support. One would imagine you could make these quarterly patches a lucrative business model with the right balance of investment vs. return.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Square (was it Square?) managed to &#8220;progress&#8221; their Final Fantasy series into a somewhat successful MMORPG that stands alone from the rest of the series. I think it could be done without affecting the CoD series too badly&#8230;</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also another way to hybridize the MMO income model to traditional video games.  Take for instance, Team Fortress 2 in the Steam network.</p>
<p>All you really need to do is:</p>
<p>1) Make a game and charge people $XX.XX to play it</p>
<p>2) Dedicate a smallish team to produce quarterly update patches introducing new content, bug fixes, etc. just like traditional MMORPGs do and charge people $XX.XX / 4 per update</p>
<p>3) Continue to support your game community and earn additional cash every quarter.</p>
<p>4) If people quit buying your updates re-evaluate your situation&#8230; are people not buying the updates because they suck or because they&#8217;ve moved on to something better?</p>
<p>So many traditional console or PC games come out as one-shots and the developers fail to offer continued support. One would imagine you could make these quarterly patches a lucrative business model with the right balance of investment vs. return.</p>
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