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	<title>Comments on: Blizzard&#8217;s &#8216;standard&#8217; should be universal</title>
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	<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644</link>
	<description>Keen and Graev bring you their latest PC/Console views, Online Adventures, and more from a unique and refreshing perspective.</description>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-154318</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-154318</guid>
		<description>- “Play, don’t tell.” Let players experience the story, not be told it.

But...

I try to play, but each time I want to do something different WoW doesn&#039;t want me to. There is nothing else anywhere.

Phrasing, making a single player game out of WoW.

Playing is about being one with the game, being able to try different things. WoW doesn&#039;t do this.

No.

WoW shows you. You do minor stuff, but generally the developer&#039;s single design path for the player is completely obvious.

I agree with the first poster. Blizzard can spew crap all they want.


@Dietx

You&#039;re joking right?

When WoW was released it was one of the friendlist MMORPGs to date. It was friendly to NORMAL people, I was a casual and I had a blast (unlike WOTLK).

Now WoW is retard friendly, meaning banging your head against the keyboard is viable.

And no, it hasn&#039;t improved. You OBVIOUSLY never played the original... Or any other MMORPGs for that matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>- “Play, don’t tell.” Let players experience the story, not be told it.</p>
<p>But&#8230;</p>
<p>I try to play, but each time I want to do something different WoW doesn&#8217;t want me to. There is nothing else anywhere.</p>
<p>Phrasing, making a single player game out of WoW.</p>
<p>Playing is about being one with the game, being able to try different things. WoW doesn&#8217;t do this.</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>WoW shows you. You do minor stuff, but generally the developer&#8217;s single design path for the player is completely obvious.</p>
<p>I agree with the first poster. Blizzard can spew crap all they want.</p>
<p>@Dietx</p>
<p>You&#8217;re joking right?</p>
<p>When WoW was released it was one of the friendlist MMORPGs to date. It was friendly to NORMAL people, I was a casual and I had a blast (unlike WOTLK).</p>
<p>Now WoW is retard friendly, meaning banging your head against the keyboard is viable.</p>
<p>And no, it hasn&#8217;t improved. You OBVIOUSLY never played the original&#8230; Or any other MMORPGs for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: U2mark</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152783</link>
		<dc:creator>U2mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152783</guid>
		<description>- Gameplay over technology. Every aspect of design focuses on the gameplay first.
- “Easy to learn, almost impossible to master.”
- It doesn’t take anything away from a game by making something “epic.”
- Don’t complicate things if the bare essentials are the best part. “concentrated coolness”
- “Play, don’t tell.” Let players experience the story, not be told it.
- Focus on incentives, not punishments.
- Learn from the failures and the successes and make improvements.

I have to say that i agree completly, no mistake in any point.

I have to that i agree completly, no mistake in any point</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>- Gameplay over technology. Every aspect of design focuses on the gameplay first.<br />
- “Easy to learn, almost impossible to master.”<br />
- It doesn’t take anything away from a game by making something “epic.”<br />
- Don’t complicate things if the bare essentials are the best part. “concentrated coolness”<br />
- “Play, don’t tell.” Let players experience the story, not be told it.<br />
- Focus on incentives, not punishments.<br />
- Learn from the failures and the successes and make improvements.</p>
<p>I have to say that i agree completly, no mistake in any point.</p>
<p>I have to that i agree completly, no mistake in any point</p>
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		<title>By: Carson</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152707</link>
		<dc:creator>Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152707</guid>
		<description>I have an analogy I like to use when people complain that it&#039;s unfair to judge a new game by comparing it to existing titles that have years of post-launch development and polish.

Let&#039;s say you&#039;re sitting down to dinner at my place, and I&#039;m serving roast chicken. I put two chickens out on the table. One is roasted to perfection. The other has only been in the oven half an hour and is mostly raw in the middle.

Do you eat the perfectly roasted one? Or do you choke down the half-raw one because it&#039;s unfair to compare it to one that has had the benefit of more time to cook?

I&#039;m a consumer. I care about the quality of the product I&#039;m buying. In the case of a computer game, this means I care about how much entertainment value the game will provide to me. If I can play WoW and be entertained or play some new title which is simply not as entertaining, I&#039;ll play WoW. I don&#039;t care whether it&#039;s &quot;fair&quot; or not to compare them.

And never forget that there is a balancing factor to all this: as people have spent so many years playing one game, they become increasingly willing to buy and play ANYTHING else, even if it is objectively not as good, simply because it&#039;s fresh. Personally I think almost all of Allods&#039; appeal can be attributed to that, but I&#039;m a minority opinion on this blog, I know. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an analogy I like to use when people complain that it&#8217;s unfair to judge a new game by comparing it to existing titles that have years of post-launch development and polish.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re sitting down to dinner at my place, and I&#8217;m serving roast chicken. I put two chickens out on the table. One is roasted to perfection. The other has only been in the oven half an hour and is mostly raw in the middle.</p>
<p>Do you eat the perfectly roasted one? Or do you choke down the half-raw one because it&#8217;s unfair to compare it to one that has had the benefit of more time to cook?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a consumer. I care about the quality of the product I&#8217;m buying. In the case of a computer game, this means I care about how much entertainment value the game will provide to me. If I can play WoW and be entertained or play some new title which is simply not as entertaining, I&#8217;ll play WoW. I don&#8217;t care whether it&#8217;s &#8220;fair&#8221; or not to compare them.</p>
<p>And never forget that there is a balancing factor to all this: as people have spent so many years playing one game, they become increasingly willing to buy and play ANYTHING else, even if it is objectively not as good, simply because it&#8217;s fresh. Personally I think almost all of Allods&#8217; appeal can be attributed to that, but I&#8217;m a minority opinion on this blog, I know. <img src='http://www.keenandgraev.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Shadrah</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152650</link>
		<dc:creator>Shadrah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152650</guid>
		<description>^ This.

AoC and DarkFall aren&#039;t getting significant numbers because first impressions do matter. You have to realize, there is a sea of MMOs our there to play. When one releases that is so terribly unstable for quite a while then people are going to leave it. Most of those people will never return because of the impression made on them.

No game should ever release one way, and then completely reworked down the line to be another. Especially after that game already gets a following. It almost always spells doom for the title. How would you have felt if WoW had released.. and then 6 months in they made it a first person shooter just for the hell of it? Such is the same for any game on release. When a game drops, the heart and soul of the game should already be there. Which means all of the basic functions and mechanics. Not 6 months down the road when you&#039;ve finally figured out what you&#039;re doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^ This.</p>
<p>AoC and DarkFall aren&#8217;t getting significant numbers because first impressions do matter. You have to realize, there is a sea of MMOs our there to play. When one releases that is so terribly unstable for quite a while then people are going to leave it. Most of those people will never return because of the impression made on them.</p>
<p>No game should ever release one way, and then completely reworked down the line to be another. Especially after that game already gets a following. It almost always spells doom for the title. How would you have felt if WoW had released.. and then 6 months in they made it a first person shooter just for the hell of it? Such is the same for any game on release. When a game drops, the heart and soul of the game should already be there. Which means all of the basic functions and mechanics. Not 6 months down the road when you&#8217;ve finally figured out what you&#8217;re doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Keen</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152633</link>
		<dc:creator>Keen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152633</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s just it... the product shouldn&#039;t be unfinished.  Products shouldn&#039;t change completely during the time you use them.  If standards were followed, there wouldn&#039;t be this unreliable (and unstable) industry.

As for improvements to games, it&#039;s (again) like any other industry.  You only get one first impression.  Screw up bad enough and you blow it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s just it&#8230; the product shouldn&#8217;t be unfinished.  Products shouldn&#8217;t change completely during the time you use them.  If standards were followed, there wouldn&#8217;t be this unreliable (and unstable) industry.</p>
<p>As for improvements to games, it&#8217;s (again) like any other industry.  You only get one first impression.  Screw up bad enough and you blow it.</p>
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		<title>By: Terroni</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152631</link>
		<dc:creator>Terroni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152631</guid>
		<description>I cant think of a similar industry to MMOs so I can&#039;t really make a comparison. I know of nothing else where you knowingly buy an unfinished product that could change completely during the time you use it.

Games such as Darkfall and AoC have improved greatly since release, yet we don&#039;t see their subscription rates rising. It took WoW nearly two years to get a significant subscriber base.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20081223/world-warcraft_2.htm

What I&#039;m saying is I don&#039;t think people would give WoW the year it would need to establish itself, if released today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cant think of a similar industry to MMOs so I can&#8217;t really make a comparison. I know of nothing else where you knowingly buy an unfinished product that could change completely during the time you use it.</p>
<p>Games such as Darkfall and AoC have improved greatly since release, yet we don&#8217;t see their subscription rates rising. It took WoW nearly two years to get a significant subscriber base.<br />
<a href="http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20081223/world-warcraft_2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20081223/world-warcraft_2.htm</a></p>
<p>What I&#8217;m saying is I don&#8217;t think people would give WoW the year it would need to establish itself, if released today.</p>
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		<title>By: Salbos</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152567</link>
		<dc:creator>Salbos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152567</guid>
		<description>How many of those 4 games are still going strong? Blizzard&#039;s standard must be doing something right.  You (damage) mention some troubles...well yeah, I guess 5 years ago they had a few ups and downs.  How long ago? yeah, 5 years ago.  I was there, I was frustrated.  But 5 years later, and trying (almost) every MMO thats come out, I still log into WoW on an almost daily basis without worrying about any bugs/glitches/down time. And still find fun, friends, new stuff, and challenge.

Worst launches ever? LOL yeah right.  Been through much worse.  Its the &#039;standard&#039; companies follow after these problems that determines how well they continue. And whether they&#039;ll keep my money or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many of those 4 games are still going strong? Blizzard&#8217;s standard must be doing something right.  You (damage) mention some troubles&#8230;well yeah, I guess 5 years ago they had a few ups and downs.  How long ago? yeah, 5 years ago.  I was there, I was frustrated.  But 5 years later, and trying (almost) every MMO thats come out, I still log into WoW on an almost daily basis without worrying about any bugs/glitches/down time. And still find fun, friends, new stuff, and challenge.</p>
<p>Worst launches ever? LOL yeah right.  Been through much worse.  Its the &#8216;standard&#8217; companies follow after these problems that determines how well they continue. And whether they&#8217;ll keep my money or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Keen</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152561</link>
		<dc:creator>Keen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152561</guid>
		<description>@Terroni: Every successful business does that, sure.  Let&#039;s translate that into successful MMO&#039;s and successful MMO studios. 

Go back the past 6 years and evaluate the games and their companies.  Based on that, how many &quot;successful businesses&quot; do you see?

You&#039;re saying that common sense and intelligence is a fault of the audience?  If a new game comes out OF COURSE I&#039;m going to judge it based on past and current games.  Who doesn&#039;t do that in EVERY industry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Terroni: Every successful business does that, sure.  Let&#8217;s translate that into successful MMO&#8217;s and successful MMO studios. </p>
<p>Go back the past 6 years and evaluate the games and their companies.  Based on that, how many &#8220;successful businesses&#8221; do you see?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re saying that common sense and intelligence is a fault of the audience?  If a new game comes out OF COURSE I&#8217;m going to judge it based on past and current games.  Who doesn&#8217;t do that in EVERY industry?</p>
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		<title>By: Shadrah</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152496</link>
		<dc:creator>Shadrah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 18:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152496</guid>
		<description>@Damage

Yes, while you&#039;re looking at those 4 games. Remember how many weeks it took you to get those items because you were so lost from lack of it being user-friendly that you want to pull your own teeth out.

Yes, WoW had flaws. As I said. What game doesn&#039;t have a pretty shakey launch? When you can name one for me that released perfectly then I&#039;ll actually give merit to that argument. You&#039;re not telling anyone anything they don&#039;t already know. Just because it happened to WoW doesn&#039;t mean we should all just bend over and take it for every game that releases after it with terrible launches. Just because people make excuses for them to be able to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Damage</p>
<p>Yes, while you&#8217;re looking at those 4 games. Remember how many weeks it took you to get those items because you were so lost from lack of it being user-friendly that you want to pull your own teeth out.</p>
<p>Yes, WoW had flaws. As I said. What game doesn&#8217;t have a pretty shakey launch? When you can name one for me that released perfectly then I&#8217;ll actually give merit to that argument. You&#8217;re not telling anyone anything they don&#8217;t already know. Just because it happened to WoW doesn&#8217;t mean we should all just bend over and take it for every game that releases after it with terrible launches. Just because people make excuses for them to be able to.</p>
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		<title>By: Terroni</title>
		<link>http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644&#038;cpage=1#comment-152463</link>
		<dc:creator>Terroni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=3644#comment-152463</guid>
		<description>&quot;- Learn from the failures and the successes and make improvements.&quot;

I think the last point is odd because every successful business does that.

The problem, as I see it, is that people don&#039;t give MMOs the benefit of the doubt. New games have to compete with games that have been around for a few years, and are found lacking. 

This says more about the audience than company&#039;s design philosophies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;- Learn from the failures and the successes and make improvements.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the last point is odd because every successful business does that.</p>
<p>The problem, as I see it, is that people don&#8217;t give MMOs the benefit of the doubt. New games have to compete with games that have been around for a few years, and are found lacking. </p>
<p>This says more about the audience than company&#8217;s design philosophies.</p>
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