Good Teams Delay Games

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  • Post category:MMORPG

Feels like early access, alphas, betas — whatever you want to call them these days — are so heavily monetized and marketed that the next logical step is QVC/HSN. Even browsing the news sites this morning I see games that aren’t even in beta going ‘on sale’ for a discount — Wtf?  When someone sells access to their game and pushes it hard I start losing respect for them and their product.

Over the past few days I’ve witnessed what feels like a breath of fresh air: Devs failing to meet a deadline. Yep, I love it. Why? Because (1) They had a deadline and (2) They are communicating about it. Who am I referring to? The City State team working on Camelot Unchained.

I’m an original Kickstarter backer for Camelot Unchained so I get the almost-daily emails from Mark and the team about their progress. What I love is the ‘realness’ in them. The ‘crap we missed a deadline and failed you’ and the ‘Here’s what’s actually happening in the office’ live streams. Yep, I’m still a fan of transparency.

While I’m not a huge fan of the “buy access to our game through one of fifty tiers” shops, even those in Camelot Unchained, I like and respect a team that won’t launch a half-baked product and respects quality control.

What I REALLY want to see is a MMO gets announced, the team works on the game, they market the game, recruit testers, sell the game, launch the game, then support the game and continue development. Sounds like 1995-2007, I know, right?!

Anyway, keep up the good work CSE. Delay the alpha. Delay the beta. Delay it all. Rushing is for games with overlords and no vision with a lifespan of 3 months to a year. It’s not worth being in that category.

  • I agree it’s a good precedent not releasing an unfinished product. That said, once devs start taking people’s cash, there is an obligation to deliver on the product and timeline.

    While I don’t think people will be too upset with a month or so delay, anything more would be pretty bad and once again burn all the “early-access” backers. Delays usually go hand-in-hand with budget over-runs, which can lead to disaster in crowd-funded games. Don’t be fooled by communication, because as we saw with Landmark, said communication can fade from existence when things start to crumble.

    Bitching about “early-access” seems like a losing battle these days, though.

  • I have remained cautiously optimistic about this game for a long time. I like the way they have done things so far. They’ve even shared the details of the really big bugs they’ve been trying to fix which is relatively unheard of. I also am an original Kickstarter backer and am patiently waiting for the Beta that my tier gets in to. I believe it is Beta 2.

    But even their Kickstarter was pretty transparent. They weren’t marketing Early Access. They were laying out their plans and asking us for funding.

  • Yeah, CSE has so far handled their Kickstarter / “paid alpha testing” / “early access” etc., etc., probably the best of any company doing it for an MMO yet. We’ll see how it all pans out. Way too much time left to tell, but so far so good.

    They’re streaming right now, btw. http://www.twitch.tv/citystategames

  • Missing a deadline isn’t a good thing, but the fact that they are being so honest and transparent about it is. Reading Mark’s posts over the past month or so, he seemed to really feel bad about missing the first deadline and even worse for missing the March 1st one even though it looks like it will only by a day or 2. They are giving all backers some extra stuff to make up for the delay so they seem pretty serious about it.

    Also, they have been transparent through the entire development process so its not like we needed a missed deadline to show it.

    But yeah, missing deadlines isn’t good in any part of life. We’ve just been trained that it is somehow acceptable in the game making business.

  • I agree that missing a deadline isn’t great, but in this sad state of an industry we’re in right now… I would rather someone miss a deadline, be upfront about it, and talk about why they have to fix something and move the deadline (this is what CSE did). The alternative is to not set a deadline or to set a drop-dead date and move forward anyway. Or, worse, move ahead with marketing the game hardcore in its incomplete state.

    So yes, CSE gets props. Props for having deadlines they care about, props for moving the deadline when they didn’t accomplish what they wanted, and props for making amends for it. Overall good practices that I, as a backer, can respect.

    Back to my headline – Good Teams Delay Games (rather than rush ahead or not even have goals leading to a delay).

  • Full disclosure I had backed the kickstarter for over $1,000 (possibly $2,000) when it met its goal and I started to think…hmmm maybe that’s too much for virtual entertainment. And you hate pvp! So I cancelled. But I would have been seriously pissed if I paid all that and my alpha access started getting delayed. So yay me for dodging that bullet.

    This is the little gaming company with the best customer service in mmos, basically because of one guy. Those skills and vision will make us overlook a lot. Can he make a Ferrari with the 6-10 people he has? I’m not convinced.

  • @baba black sheep: Mark might hate me for saying this, but you’re smart for not backing at $1,000 and CSE won’t make a Ferrari here. Shame on anyone who thinks they will. I want a great Toyota Camry. Something reliable I can keep for years that won’t disappoint me or end up costing me lots of extra money. I hope CU can become that. No mmorpg is worth an initial outlay of a grand regardless of your socioeconomic status. If anything, an mmo in this space should have to earn it. I expect CU will have to earn my money (more than I’ve already given to the dream) in order to keep me playing. Every game should have to earn it.

  • Games that are delayed aren’t guaranteed to be good though. So I’d say it’s meaningless in the end.

  • @Cacheelma: But games that are rushed out the door are almost certainly bad. I’ll take the delay.

    @Fred: The ‘delay’ lasted 72 hours (plus the month they pushed it back) so the ‘wait’ is technically over in terms of the delay. I’d gladly have the CSE team delay a month here and there to meet their development goals if it means a better game in the end. A good team knows when and how to delay to have it make a better product.

  • @Keen: I’m curious as to your thoughts on the group finder addition to CU.

    Group finders are great for casual players and the solo minded player, but they really seem to kill the community aspect. No need to be nice in groups or effective, because people can just que for another. Players end up either soloing in the world, or just sit around waiting for their que to pop. Guess this gets back to your recent post about group play.

    I know most games implement group finders now, but I always thought CU was going to try break the mold of what recent theme parks had created. IMO, if the group finder is cross-server, it will absolutely be a negative towards building a strong community.

  • @Keen: Ignore that post! Group finder added to original DAoC, not CU. Names are too similar.

  • Easily mixed up! MJ is the man behind both! 🙂 I’ll still answer your question, though. Group finders are a great tool for building shallow worlds designed to rush people to the max level with a 3 month lifespan. 😉

  • Gali says:
    March 5, 2015 at 5:49 am
    I can’t help but feel like Camelot is going to end up like Curt Shilling’s MMO.
    >>>>Not a chance. I can’t promise that Camelot Unchained is going to be the best MMORPG ever but we are now in Alpha, can support 1K+ Backers and Bots in a reasonable small space, etc. We also announced C.U.B.E. (Camelot Unchained Building Environment) which is a block-building standalone version of the game.

    Kenn says:
    @baba black sheep: Mark might hate me for saying this, but you’re smart for not backing at $1,000 and CSE won’t make a Ferrari here. Shame on anyone who thinks they will. I want a great Toyota Camry. Something reliable I can keep for years that won’t disappoint me or end up costing me lots of extra money. I hope CU can become that. No mmorpg is worth an initial outlay of a grand regardless of your socioeconomic status. If anything, an mmo in this space should have to earn it. I expect CU will have to earn my money (more than I’ve already given to the dream) in order to keep me playing. Every game should have to earn it.
    >>>> Not likely.  We can disagree about things and still be friends. Do I think a piece of virtual real estate is worth $$$$. I do think it depends on socioeconomic status and the value that it brings to the individual. If you view the 1K item as just a 1K item, that’s one thing. But for a lot of the people I’ve spoken to who have backed at the higher tiers it was a combination of things. For some of them, it was a way to help in a very big way someone and/or something they believed in. For others, it was a way of saying thanks for the joy they got in Dark Age, WAR and other games. For others still, it was because they were going to get something that was very special. Would I spend 1K for a ship in SC? Nope. But would I throw down 1K or more to really help something I believe in? Yes, I have and I will do so again. It’s really a very personal decision and people’s motivations are all over the place.

    Baba black sheep says:
    March 3, 2015 at 5:52 pm
    Full disclosure I had backed the kickstarter for over $1,000 (possibly $2,000) when it met its goal and I started to think…hmmm maybe that’s too much for virtual entertainment. And you hate pvp! So I cancelled. But I would have been seriously pissed if I paid all that and my alpha access started getting delayed. So yay me for dodging that bullet.
    This is the little gaming company with the best customer service in mmos, basically because of one guy. Those skills and vision will make us overlook a lot. Can he make a Ferrari with the 6-10 people he has? I’m not convinced.
    >>>> First, no worries on the cancelation, truly. Secondly, umm, we are at 22+ people right now and looking to grow more.  And in terms of overlooking a lot, please don’t. Yeah, I bust my ass here, just as I did at Old Mythic, trying to give great CS. Yeah, we still give refunds when asked and I also talk to Backers all the time through email, Forums and a meet-up in Portland this week. But, at the end of the day, we still have to make a great game, everything else is secondary.

    Gringar says:
    March 3, 2015 at 9:55 am
    I have remained cautiously optimistic about this game for a long time. I like the way they have done things so far. They’ve even shared the details of the really big bugs they’ve been trying to fix which is relatively unheard of. I also am an original Kickstarter backer and am patiently waiting for the Beta that my tier gets in to. I believe it is Beta 2.
    But even their Kickstarter was pretty transparent. They weren’t marketing Early Access. They were laying out their plans and asking us for funding.
    >>>>Thanks for that! FYI, during the Alpha we will have days where we will be inviting all our Beta folks to come in and break stuff. Hopefully we will see you there.