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Could it be DAoC 2?

Would it shock you if I told you that Dark Age of Camelot is one of my favorite games?  No, of course it wouldn’t. My moniker is ‘Keen’ after all.   You should also know that I am always pining for the return of true realm pride, meaningful conflict between factions of players resulting in control of territory, and a world capable of immersing players in more than just flashy light and themepark rides.

I follow Mark Jacobs’ company, City State Entertainment.  I believe in the ideas he tries to run with, and I believe in supporting those who are dedicated to at least trying to progress the MMORPG hobby forward. This is exactly the same thing I was saying earlier this week when I mentioned supporting Smedley’s ideas for EQ3, despite some of SOE’s crazier tendencies.

This appeared on CSE’s website:

That teaser has successfully teased me right into a whirlwind of speculation.  Do each of those dragons represent a faction? The words in the teaser allude to the the spirit of DAoC’s gameplay.  Could it be a spiritual successor?  Will it at least embody the same elements that caused DAoC to make such a lasting impression on so many players?

I’m thinking high fantasy, and hopefully some sort of MMORPG.  I’m hoping that Mark and his team have what it takes to give us something new, something fresh, and something free of the same pitfalls we all end up griping about year after year.

You can bet I’ll be following this one closely.

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Comments

  1. Intruder313 says:

    Well since I never actually got to play DAoC (somehow) I’ll be pretty interested to get the chance.

  2. Looks like a pretty heavy hint in that direction to me. Whether it will come to anything is another matter entirely, of course…

  3. Wait, Keen is short for lurikeen? I had always assumed it was because you’re a giant fan of the Commander Keen series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander_Keen).

    DAoC was awesome.

  4. I watched it. It honestly meant absolutely nothing to me.

    The only thing that stood out is that that is actually Earth. I don’t know of much fantasy that actually takes place on our real Earth.

    What do you guys think?

  5. @Rawblin: Good catch. That does look like Earth. Maybe fantasy is out, although the dragons…

  6. Well DAOC is set on “earth” one of the most clever things they did is use Arthurian myth to market the game. So maybe it is something similar

    Lets hope it is not some mobile/social/f2p crapware

  7. @Zugzug: Also true. I think Earth doesn’t rule anything out yet — and since it’s just a teaser they may not even go the Earth route at all (perhaps just a planet).

    Maybe it’ll be a mix of Sci-fi and fantasy since they showed a planet.

    So much room for speculation!

  8. Steeldragoon says:

    @Polynices – I, too, originally thought Keen’s name came from “Commander Keen.” Also, I don’t know if he’s ever admitted to knowing/playing Commander Keen.

  9. I’ve played a TON of Commander Keen. ;) That’s one of the only games I played back in the mid 90’s.

    My name is definitely from LuriKEENs in DAoC.

  10. “played a TON of Commander Keen… name is definitely from LuriKEEN”

    Yeah, someone is clearly in denial about his fanatic love for Commander Keen. You only picked lurikeen as a race because it had KEEN in it. Amirite?

  11. Maybe there was something at the subconscious level?

  12. I hope it isnt a space setting…I really hope it is fantasy…it kind of does look like fantasy though with the wings.

  13. @Argorius: I thought they were wings too until I look at them sideways. They look like full, slender, dragons. I think a fantasy setting is likely.

  14. Why do I get a 404 error when I click the link to continue to CSE’s homepage?

  15. This does indeed look promising, but I always thought CSE was a small company, mostly focused on mobile projects or small, indie-like games. DaoC 2 or any other serious RvR 3 factions MMO is a serious project, that needs more than 10 people on it, if it’s going to live up to the unavoidable hype.

    The teaser does point towards such a game though, so I’m eagerly awaiting more details. I’m not a fan of Mark Jacobs, after the way he managed to run Warhammer Online into the ground, but I know he means well. :D

  16. On MMORPG, Mark Jacobs gave an interview the other day talking about Kickstarter financing and MMO development. His take away message was that it is “possible” if you are in the right circumstances. I wonder if he actually wants to go that route.

  17. @Idunaz: I’m not sure, works for me.

    @mynsc: CSE is somewhat small. I don’t know if that’s good or bad. Perhaps they’ll grow if they acquire funding. Great games have come from small studios — even MMORPG’s.

    I think Mark gets way too much crap for the WAR failure. Some responsibility falls on him, but I believe a TON of the blame can be pointed right at EA and the rest of the upper management surrounding him. The problems WAR has/had are the results of more than one person’s participation.

    @Argorius: The interview you mention (here) does indeed point the possibility of kickstarter. If Mark Jacobs wanted to try and Kickstart an MMORPG taken in the direction of a spiritual successor to DAOC 2 then I would definitely pitch in.

  18. @Keen

    He’s definitely not the only one to blame for what happened to WAR, but I think he’s one of the main targets. Not only was he president of the company and thus had an important say in any staff promotions, in the decision to sell to EA or partner with GOA for distribution in Europe, but he also was lead honcho for design. I mean, we all remember how he bragged about the crafting system being his baby and of course we know how much of a failure it turned out to be.

    I’m convinced that his intentions were always good and I loved the fact that he was tremendously active on forums, responding to fans and engaging in all types of discussions, but at the end of the day results matter.

  19. I have mixed emotions about a DAoC successor, as it would have to be something pretty special to reincarnate the same level of enjoyment, involvement and realm-pride that the early years of DAoC provided.

    However, if Mark and his team could pull together all of those bits (via a Kickstarter perhaps, I’d donate!) and get the right people involved who knows.

    Best to sit tight and wait for more information first…

  20. @Keen
    Thanks for the kind words and support, really appreciate it.

    @Mysnc
    You are correct in a lot of what you say sir and unlike others, I am happy to take responsibility for my actions. My crafting concept never got close to implementation. Whatever the reasons for that, you’re right results matter and for failing in that regard, that’s on me.

    In terms of the sale to EA (or anyone else), I was outvoted. By the time Mythic was looking for a M&A partner, I was no longer the majority shareholder (we sold a big piece to Abandon for the DAoC funding and then another big piece to TA Associates). At that point I could either try to force the majority not to sell by adopting a scorched earth plan or I could spend my time trying to get the best deal possible. I close the latter because I was the President of the company and as such, I believe(d) that I had an obligation to both my studio and my team to get the best deal possible and not screw either party over. It took a lot out of me (and added about 30 pds) emotionally & psychologically but I got a deal that more than satisfied the investors and protected my studio’s employees at the same time.

    As to GOA, that’s all on me. I made the decision because the deal with GOA gave us the financial stability to ensure that we could self-publish the game and have extra cash for the inevitable delays. I also secured certain promises from GOA about how they were going to do things for the LIVE game. Whether they kept them or not I won’t say for the same reasons I won’t talk about other things whether it was my departure, EA, “senior leadership” at Mythic/WAR team/etc. I hope you can respect that.

    Mark

  21. WAR had a lot of core issues, like not having a third faction, or just using the Warhammer IP ‘wrong’ (why lump everyone into two factions when the lore clearly allows you to make separate factions that can, when needed, ally temporarily?). Collision detection was meh compared to games which actually had it, the CC was arguably worse than DAoC, and the entire end-game was only a good idea on paper. Crafting being blah is so far down that list its a total non-factor.

    Considering the “how to” was already written (DAoC), seeing how far WAR was from the target was pretty shocking. Now sure, maybe this new game will just be DAoC with fresh paint and some improvements, but looking at WAR, I find that hard to believe right now.

  22. @Mark: Word on the street is that back in the day there was a lot of Power Mongering and “greed for power” happening at Mythic where people tried to claw themselves to the top. Is that pretty accurate?

    I think WAR’s core issues were deciding on the 2-way RVR instead of having at least 3 factions and the early focus on RVR instancing including the “over-design” of the RVR trying to make it too much “game like.”

    For a DAOC2 successor I would be worried about shortcuts – like mirroring the classes of 3 factions because that makes it much easier to “balance” (and incredibly boring). Considering how much crying over class balance there usually is I wouldnt be surprised if that is what would happen – even though I believe that the designer that does not get tempted by this shortcut and puts in the hard work to design a bunch of different classes and tries to balance them over time will be the one that can set himself apart from the rest. I also would be worried about the general trend in MMOs of reducing characters’ powers in order to balance them – if nobody is powerful then balance is easier to achieve…but again…this is boring…I enjoyed the days of PBAOE bombs, stungard, the crazy mezzes…powerful abilities…ba;ance should be achieved via good counters…not by making the abilities trivial (you leveled? here you go…enjoy the +1% to hit percentage!)

  23. A DAoC successor will never, ever, ever give you loot as a reward for pvping. There is no half way on this.

    Unfortunately, everyone since WoW has wanted to do exactly that.

  24. @Mark Jacobs

    This is exactly what I meant when I said active on forums and always engaging with the community. Few people would take the time to respond here (hell, they wouldn’t even know about this little discussion) and that is definitely a huge plus from me and I think most players.

    To be fair, I was a little harsh when I mentioned the crafting system, as that was far from being one of the main issues of the game. In the end it was just one of the many WAR features that were far from being fully tweaked or even implemented.

    Anyway, the past is the past and I’m actually rooting for you guys now, assuming this new mysterious game has anything to do with DaoC or MMOs in general.

  25. @Argorious
    No comment on the Power Mongering and greed points but there lots of stuff out there so…
    If I am going to do another MMO, no shortcuts unless they make the game better. I would rather do a smaller game with great features and build over time then the other way around. They say you can’t teach an old MMO developer new tricks but…
    As to the three factions, I totally agree. It was a mistake. My original idea/plan was for three sides but things happened and we cut out the third.

    @mysync
    LOL, no worries on the crafting comment, I’m used to hearing a lot worse and at least the point you made was not a crazy one. On other sites and other times, I’ve been blamed for everything bad that happened at Mythic and get none of the credit for anything good. At least with the crafting system I had pumped it up because of my original vision and so players have a right to be dissapointed in it. I was too.

    As to posting, I love being in forums and talking to players as I have done for over 25 years of making games. I just have a tendency to go when the haters come out. I can deal with criticism but when people start lying through their teeth about things, making stuff up, etc. I leave. The stuff that people say sometimes doesn’t surprise me anymore but it does make doing things like this a lot less enjoyable. Even with WAR, I spent a lot of time on the forums reading, talking and would take stuff back to the team based n what I thought too. It’s amazing how out of touch some devs were with what I would bring to them. That’s one of the very valuable lessons I learned from Dark Age and WAR and if I do another MMO, team engagement with the community will be higher than with any other game I have evr done.

    As to the past being past, thank you, I really appreciate it. Besides, I’m sure we will make new mistakes for players to blame me for so all is good! :) Truly though, I thank you.

    @Rawblin
    Why is getting loot from PvP bad?

  26. FirbyWarden says:

    @MarkJacobs
    – Why is getting loot from PvP bad?

    I don’t think it’s a bad thing. As long as it’s not the main form of PvP progression. Combined with a Realm Realm/Abilities type system, I wouldn’t mind loot in PvP.

    But take WoW for example. Where loot is the only form of progression in PvP. Ugh. Just… UGH. Never playing a game like that again.

  27. PvPing for loot is a complex topic.

    What does “PvPing for loot” mean? PvP for ranks to unlock gear? PvP for points to buy gear? Or could it mean PvP for control of a dungeon that drops gear?

    Other issues creep in as well. Is there a mandated PvP stat that rules out PvE gear? Can crafters still provide gear for players? Without carefully considering how gear obtained through PvP impacts the rest of the game, it’s easy to close doors and lock yourself out.

    I prefer to make gear a trivial factor, and instead use a realm rank and realm ability system or something that closely mimics the earning of something through time and skill in pvp while not impacting your character too much outside of PvP areas. This is why I loved DAoC so much in the early days — I felt like PvP rewards were spot on with Darkness Falls and realm abilities.

  28. Yes, I agree – loot from PVP is ok as long as it isnt tied to some form of (fake) progression. People playing RPGs like character progression and not gear hunting – the realm ability system was one of my favorite parts of DAOC. What made it work also was that it was a non-grindable system – it was a long term project (akin to the “infinite” levelling in Asheron’s Call). Once a system is in place that is not grindable, people tend to play and get the points as a benefit of playing instead of logging on to get points so that they can have fun at some later point in time.

    If the realm rank system is not “long term” enough people will try to grind it out – if it is incredibly difficult to attain the highest rank – people seem to be able to enjoy the game more (as long as a low RR can at least compete with a higher RR).

    The easiest way to grind is if Devs think they can mix open world PVP with instanced battleground PVP. If I see one instanced battleground in a potential DAOC successor – I will honestly start crying haha…

  29. @fishywarden Agreed.

    @keen
    I agree that loot gained through PvP should mostly be trivial but I think that there are a number of things that could add some spice to the PvP aspects of a age. I also think that gear grinding and the impact of gear on PvP should be more trivial than most MMOs. However, I think that a next-gen MMO really needs to look at the crafting systems and see what has gone wrong (sometimes horribly) and see how they can be redone.

    @keen & Argorious
    Agreed on the realm rak and realm abilities. Definitely some of our better work.

    @argorious Agree completely on things with a long tail. Inadvertently, I think by making our MMOs easier to level, we ended up accelerating the amount of grinding that many players did. If the next ability is “just over the hill” many players will have a tendency to run towards that hill and, is there is another hill after that, they will run for that hill as well.

  30. Earth Dragon says:

    As the leader of a 100 person regiment in WAR, I felt the issues with the faction had NOTHING to do with loose lore. That bugged a non-substantial amount of players. The issue was the entire world PvP scene and castle raids weren’t as meaningful as promised and the action was all to often lack luster. There is always this assumption that the only people who PvP are people who always PvP. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I had lots of players who loved “working” for the faction, but didn’t always feel ready to go out there and take people out. A game needs something to keep them busy but still has them feel like a contributing member, and also needs systems in place to ensure action is always around the corner.

    My biggest suggestion:

    Combine PvE and PvP. Completely. Scenarios are separated PvP. Towns have seperated PvE missions. Battlefields are completely integrated. Why should I hang out in an RvR zone if the faction has taken everything it can? Well, if the computer mustered up NPC forces to take back the turf every so often you might need to defend it or there is a chance it could be over run even without players. Thus also helps the group of 5 get in on the action…. They don’t have to wait for 35 other players, they just have to follow in those NPCs and use them as shields while they focus on the objectives. The stronger the faction is player wish the slower the NPC reinforcements come out.

    The PvP purists might not like this idea at first, but once they realize there is always a battle a brewin somewhere, they will get over it.

  31. Earth Dragon says:

    On a loot note, I have always felt that games in general make your level And equipment mean “WAY” to much. A level 40 should not be God to a level one. If the system made it possible for 15-20 level 1s to actually take down the level 40, people wouldn’t care as much about “grinding” for stuff. It’s just a nice bonus when you get it that gives you an edge. The level 40 who is paying attention can still paste a dozen new players at a time if he pays attention, but if he is griefing, the new players can gang up on them and defend themselves.

    As far as rewards go, you make rewards ceiling the same as your level, giving you the same experience for something 5 levels above as something you same level so people don’t get ahead of themselves, yet minimalize rewards as usual for lower level stuff (always giving a nominal reward at least, as the proposed system would make everything a technical threat.)

  32. Nelson Munts says:

    This is my feeling on not only any upcoming MMO that catches my interests but also pertains to directly to a Dark Age Of Camelot 2 ” I’m in favor of Dark Age of Camelot 2 as long at is not a WoW clone and isn’t a paradise for players with entitlement. Subscription Fee model games means you get to play. It doesn’t entitle you to content. As long as I am in control of my progression which I want determined on whether or not I’m working towards end game either it be PvE or PVP. Give me this and I would buy DAOC 2″

  33. I would very much like to see DAOC 2. I’ve played DAOC since launch and still play off and on. Some of my best gaming memories are from PVP in the early days of DAOC.

  34. Cablechet says:

    U can play daoc classic free shard at uthgard.net, it’s still a very active server without all the horrible expansions

  35. @MarkJacobs

    Please make a DAoC2! Honestly, no other game has even come close to the fun I had in DAoC. No other game could stop me from levelling up to help reinforce the end game PvP battles.
    Each new MMO I try has come with a hasty exit soon after.

    I played DAoC shortly after release and was hooked for a good 6-8 years!

    I re-subbed sometime last year for a little bit of fun in the battlegrounds AND IT WAS STILL JUST AS FUN! I didn’t hit up the frontiers as I was worried I was behind the gear curve but still…I got a friend to play with me, who had never played DAoC before, and he loved it as well!! Although I kind of wish that BG gear merchants weren’t implimented but whatcha gonna do, right.

    Anyways, Mark, do the right thing. Make a DAoC2.

  36. @MarkJacobs

    I know I’m a little late to the conversation here, but I hope that you’ll read this at some point anyway and maybe even smile a little, because no matter the mistakes made down the road, you produced something simply magical.

    DAoC was what I consider to be my first ‘true’ MMO (outside of The Realm), and over a decade later, it still holds the best memories of gaming that I have, and for that alone I want to thank you.

    For me, it wasn’t the graphics, or the fantasy setting, although they were beautiful to me. It wasn’t the dungeons or the mobs, or the armor. It wasn’t the crafting… (God knows it wasn’t the crafting in that game), it wasn’t the housing or the way I could spend hours displaying my trophies (which were freakin’ awesome).

    It was the way that the game was structured to rely on a strong and tight-knit community. Each realm had its saviors and its asshats, but when our realm was under attack, everyone had a purpose and a job, and teamwork was the order of the day. If not, you and your entire realm suffered from it.

    God, I remember forum threads where arguments, plans of attack, defense strategies, battle group commanders, tips on leading the charge, etc were hashed over for *weeks* at a time, and membership was by invite only into the discussion.

    Crafting, horrid as it was back then… *DING*… *DING*………*DING*… (heh), it actually *mattered*, and you would sit there and stare at that hateful green bar for months to become a Grand Master, because the best armor you could get in the game came from it. Crafters were well respected, it was amazing.

    Guild Cloaks. You know, I have yet to see a system where Guild Cloaks have been as cool as they were in DAoC. I thought that the WoW Tabards… well, quite frankly, they sucked ass and weren’t nearly as beautiful as those cloaks. There was nothing better than going out with my PvP guild, when we all had those cloaks, and you knew that the sight of them would strike fear into the heart of your enemy when they saw you coming and respect from those in your realm who aspired to find their own team to work with so well.

    Guild Alliances. Still haven’t really run across any other game that does this. It was a fantastic concept, and I find it irritating that these days people form *mega* guilds that invite anyone and everyone because they could give a shit less about the players in them or the overall reputation of their guild. This type of thing did not happen often in DAoC, and if it did, it didn’t last long. There was no need for these monstrosities, I think a lot of that had to do with those alliances.

    You did housing right! Loved it! Same with those trophies.

    I also miss the days of forced exploration. There were no “maps” in DAoC with stupid explanation points all over the place. While the feature is cool, and eventually we downloaded maps of the zones that other players painstakingly created, in the beginning it was a pleasant surprise to discover hidden coves and areas that only you and your invited friends knew about.

    I know you’ve heard all of this before, but when I think of those times, even all of these years later, it still brings a smile on my face. Hell, the guild I founded on the Pendragon test server was still going the last I heard a few years ago. (House Draconis). Hah, I got a kick out of that. Getting that Guild Cloak was a pure moment of pride, and I still remember it to this day. (Blue and Gold checque with the dragon emblem). :P

    If you ever do decide to make a successor of any kind, here’s my wishlist:

    Guild Cloaks
    Guild Alliances
    Housing
    *MEANINGFUL* Crafting (maybe even a completed system like you wanted for WAR)
    Realm Ranks were awesome
    Unique Classes / Races for each of the THREE factions

    (Yes, I remember the days of bitching about Left Axe and Thanes for weeks, but I would rather bitch about that than have the same sad choices everywhere I go)

    NO Co-mingling of the Realms / Cities. I loved the replay factor for this reason. Each faction was a brand spanking new discovery because I had NO access to their inner zones, I only saw them in PvP. Starting a new Thane and exploring Mid was a new as the first day I rolled up my Cleric in Alb.

    No cross communication with the enemy either, ala Rift. While it may be cute at first, listening to shit-talk the entire time was stale and poor form.

    Sloooow down the leveling. It was a true several month long process to level up all the way in that game, and it meant something. It wasn’t something you did on your own either, but in groups (as long as you weren’t a tool).

    A limit to the number of people who can be in a guild. Make each choice of who you invite count. If you have 40 *close* gaming friends, they can form sister guilds and Ally themselves (like we used to do).

    Relics were cool. The bonus wasn’t overwhelming, but it was a point of pride. Nothing better than planning ‘decoy’ relic carriers, protecting your realm’s top PvP guild while hundreds of you fought and battled for 24-48 hours to pull off the ultimate victory or the ultimate defense. And the weeks that could be spent afterwards haggling over where your strategies went right or wrong. :)

    Keeps and Towers that can be claimed and fly the guild colors, fantastic

    PVP controlled Dungeons, YES and YES. Getting to go in and wipe out your enemy on the way in after claiming it, or getting ready to wipe out as many as you could that you knew were coming in, so much fun.

    Guild Housing, yes. Personal housing, no. Housing was very cool in the things you could display and the features you could purchase, but it really killed a lot of the crafting community when people could go hide off in some obscure corner instead of it being a group of friends bitching to each other at the community forge, ya know?

    Anyway. I’m rambling on and on, but ultimately, I just wanted to say THANK YOU. I know that I was part of a 6 – 8 year experience that nobody has been able to recapture, if they ever will, and I for one am most grateful for it.

  37. PS: I realize that I mention housing a lot and it reads as very contradictory. What I meant to emphasize overall is that the way housing was done, customization, etc, and a guild housing structure was perfect, take everything you did with housing and then make it guild housing only, not individual player housing.

  38. A DAoC 2? I would be there in a blink of an eye,use up all my combined vacation for the next 5 years. And very actively hunt down ex-daoc players, to get them to join.

    To my knowledge there hasn’t been a 3-sided pvp oriented mmo out, since DAoC. I’m really baffled why not. It is the one thing I’ve been looking for ever since I quit DAoC. And each time I’ve settled for less, I have been disappointed.

    Mark Jacobs did an amazing and innovative job of DAoC for sure, and it seems someone is finally learning from Jacobs. In the form of Elder Scrolls Online. Hopefully I won’t be disappointed yet again. I’m almost at the point where I think a DAoC 2 is the only thing that could really satisfy me:-)

  39. The second teaser pretty much gives it away posted 2 days ago. Keyword Realms

  40. Please… I can’t emphasize enough, PLEASE…. For all that is good and true.. if this is an mmorpg, and it is a spiritual successor to DAOC, just do not, for any reason ever put any type of gun in this thing. Nothing that combusts and expels a round, has a magazine, clip, calibur, or optic, you get it. And don’t do it cartoon or comic style. DAOC is an insane success, I still play weekly after ten years because its the only one like it. There’s a million games with guns, there’s plenty more all bright and cheesy and comic book style. Stick with what worked, please do not decide that you have the most innovative idea ever and derail the greatness this could be.

    Ranged PVP : Casters… Magic only… / Archers…. Bolts and arrows only…
    Melee: Sword and board / hand 2 hand / two handed weapons that don’t fire anything, ever!

  41. I’m sorry, I wanted to clarify just in case Mr. Jacobs reads this so maybe I can give something more useful. Here are two MMO’s following DAOC and why me and my crew quit.

    Warhammer:

    1)Guns.. (If I wanted to shoot something or be shot out, theres a ton of options that do it better. Alot of people, me included play MMORPG’s for the D&D type atmosphere, not modern combat)
    2) Instanced PVP.. (No desire to que up then be ploped into some level based land with a number of other people that will never do anything as a team. And I want to be able to /stick to people. For idiots like me that aren’t as fast on the keys as a twelve year old MIT grad, it matters. I want to go to a PVP area, even if no one is there, I want to be able to be and do stuff there when I want to be, sorry you just spoiled us in DAOC)
    3) Class race and sex fixed.. (I wanted to play the assassin girl, but I don’t play female characters and I was not playing a witch hunter because of the guns, and I liked the other team. This killed my enjoyment and limited my free choice, once again spoiled with DAOC)

    Rift:

    1) Linear questing.. (I felt like I had to do all these quests to level to go see a new place that I was walked through by hand. I did not have options to just go kill stuff and not quest, its how it feels. There is exactly one place at a time your given to be at your level, not fun, no free exploration, no options.)
    2) Instanced PVP.. (Same problem as War, but really at least war gave you something to fight for other than fighting for fighting’s sake. Being sucked away and ploped into a map with 14 other people I don’t know, that will not unify or work together, and run around flailing weapons wildly at random people while hoping another random healer has you as a target was awful. And really why should they work together, the only objective was chaos, it was crap. Also still spoiled by DAOC)

    I guess it comes down to that if you want the DAOC crowd, keep the core of what you did right. This crowd is far older than most other games. We don’t need our hands held to be successful, and enjoy your product. I guess I figure what makes more sense business wise, 300,000 people for two months paying, or 50,000 for over a decade. It’s a long term thing, just please don’t follow our current industry trend of DUMBER IS BETTER!

  42. Scarweaver says:

    One of the greatest things about DAOC was the community. No other game I’ve played has had anything close to it. I remember in the old school days, pre Darkness Falls, if there was relic raid in our realm, EVERYONE showed up to protect it, even little newbs. It was a point of pride for the realm to keep those relics. And when DF came out, entire guilds would protect it just to make sure we could farm diamonds and for lowbies to level up grinding. It will be very difficult for a game to create that kind of selfless community that DAOC had.

  43. Scarweaver says:

    And the BG’s were so awesome. I mean, instanced PVP is the new “THING” and frankly I understand it’s use in keep pvp balanced, but in DAOC, if you were short, you picked your fights until your buddies showed up, then you took that center keep and held on for dear life.

  44. Scarweaver says:

    I honestly believe that if there was a DAOC 2, or just a reimagining of it, it would sell bigtime from just the old school daoc fans like myself. I would buy it w/o hesitation. Just keep the EQ out of my DAOC *cough* Trials of Atlantis *cough*

  45. Aeis (Shaki) says:

    @Amber
    Very well written and I agree with many of your points. I hope Mark reads them.

    @Scarweaver
    +1. I believe this would also help marketing alot, since word-of-mouth marketing is so strong. Not only would I buy DAoC2, I would also hype it up beyond imagination to other gamers.

  46. Highlander McMullet says:

    For me the thing i have missed most in an MMORPG since DAoC is the grouping. Yeah now and then i would solo if i wanted, but the lfg options and being able to find guys in a few choice areas in the correct level zone and make just a simple small group to level with for hours and get/find replacements when need be was great. My most recent experiences in MMORPGS is endless soloing quests or turn up to a quest location, group up temporarily to complete the quest and then every1 disbands and thats that, run off to get another quest. I still remember grouping experiences from DAoC where things happen during the play time that has nothing to do with a quest, its just situations that occur, things go wrong, the team survives or gets wiped but you all return to overcome it next time, you find some great random loot drop and then help your mates to get the next one. Anyway just throwing that out there, i really miss the grouping from the latest mmorpgs, maybe its just me, maybe the maps are just to large now to allow for situations where there are only a handful of known leveling areas where people goto to find a group.

  47. Is there still as many people that still play DoC?? i havent played in quiet a few years

  48. Unfortunatly, i believe the Freeshard servers host more players than the paid servers.

  49. So many happy memories as my brother and I grew up playing DAoC exclusively (Mid/Kay forever!) and we still talk about the fun times we had on relic raids, duels, even the fact that we paid for a stupid buffbot account for our shadowblades, haha.

    However, I don’t think just making a clone of DAoC is the way to go in this current MMO landscape.

    Go all out and make it really interesting, make it 4 or even 5 realms, just limit the servers to keep populations up. Make it truly chaotic RvR.

    I don’t want to just see a revamp of DAoC, I want to experience something even greater.

  50. Jefdrummer says:

    Early Daoc, no game since has come close to getting my heart thumping like It.Great job Mark Jacobs. 10 YEARS later and I and friends still talk about the amazing heart pounding excitment and realm pride of classic DAOC

  51. Orchangel says:

    Me and my wife are too excited. Welcome Daoc 2 with drool and open arms. Please no guns. Keep it medieval style.

  52. Aeis (Shaki) says:

    It is not called DAOC 2 but it got Everything I could ask for a DAOC 2. I am so excited about this game!

    But it needs our support. I put in 250$ to support it and in return i get a lifetime free subscription and some fluff (that not affect balance).

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained?ref=live

  53. Its not even close to DAOC2 sorry but truth is DAOC started out with real grinding to get anywhere, leveling money and what not. PVE was a big part of the game, camping
    and what not. Over time this was all moderated to fall in line with other mmo’s
    but without pve it isnt DAOC2 infact the dedicated pvp server still had pve leveling

  54. some one wants to make daoc 2 just take the current daoc give it a better graphic engine, less lag when lots of toons present, better login, real customer support,
    and a few tweaks perhaps the old frontiers back…I am still playing and have since day one there is new players all the time.

  55. Scarweaver nailed it it was TOA that busted up the game not wow

  56. Some of you who miss DAOC should try it for a month, its still there rvr is good,just not as many players. things were made easier to accommodate less players..like master levels it is easy now no waiting days for the battle group. its not the same as in he beginning true but still way ahead of alot of other games